"Stemming gold to make ends meet..."

[Louise]

Hi,

I don't often post on the group, but this a question that grabbed me (since I teach English literature!) I checked the Oxford English Dictionary and there is one definition for "stem" as a verb that may apply. It can mean "To beg or panhandle on the streets."

Maybe that's it?

Thanks for many great discussions.

Louise

[vlmagee]

Yes, I believe that's the meaning in the song.

[johnfowles]

Originally Posted by Louise

Hi,

I don't often post on the group, but this a question that grabbed me (since I teach English literature!) I checked the Oxford English Dictionary and there is one definition for "stem" as a verb that may apply. It can mean "To beg or panhandle on the streets."

Maybe that's it?

Thanks for many great discussions.

Louise

Great answer Louise although personally I like catmanRon's more picturesque version much more than a simple prosaic dictionary explanation
Oh dear not another corfiddler from the boondocks of Moncton,NS
Beware of Jesse Joe on your local streets. word has it he carries an axe not the stringed variety either!!

[Louise]

Oh drat. You've found me out! But it's Moncton, NB (not NS). We don't like to be confused with the Nova Scotians to the south.

As for "stemming gold," I think ALL the suggested interpretations are a part of its meaning. For years, the line was fuzzy to me too .... but I always had an overall sense of the scene.

Haven't run into Jesse Joe yet. At least not as far as I know!

Louise

[johnfowles]

Originally Posted by Louise

Oh drat. You've found me out! But it's Moncton, NB (not NS). We don't like to be confused with the Nova Scotians to the south.
Louise

Well all I can say is that the worthy burghers who opened up New Brunswick in common with the original settlers of the States must have had extremely limited imaginations, if both NB and NS have a Moncton, a fact that as a British/Canadian/United States citizen I am ashamed to admit I was hitherto unaware of
I checked to see which came first and after some determined googling I found
http://www.moncton.net/articles/307.htm

which says re Moncton NS
"It was named after Lieut-General Robert Monckton. He was born in Yorkshire, England and came to Nova Scotia as a boy"
and
"In 1855 Moncton was incorporated as a city. As the result of a clerical error the "k" was dropped off the city’s name. While it was possible to correct that, both the public and the Mayor Joseph Salter decided to leave it as is."
The Mayor might have been a predecessor of Niagara Tom??
the Moncton NB wiki at:-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moncton

says
"Moncton was founded in 1766 and was initially an agricultural settlement and was first incorporated in 1855. Moncton was named after Lt. Col. Robert Monckton.
So apart from the discrepancy over his rank it would appear to be a chicken and egg situation.
No doubt the worthy man had two families on the same basis as sailors' ports of call??
Any comments Loiuise and/or Omer??
But the name of the province was definitely stolen from the city in New Jersey (if not from Germany)
The province's name comes from the English translation for the city of Braunschweig in north Germany. the ancestral home of the Hanoverian King George III of the United Kingdom.
the colony of New Brunswick was created by Sir Thomas Carleton on
August 16 1784
The New Jersey city of New Brunswick was formed by Royal Charter on December 30,1730
In 1714, the young village was given the name New Brunswick after the city of Braunschweig. in state of Lower Saxony in Germany. Braunschweig was an influential and powerful city in the Hanseatic League, later in the Holy Toman Empire, and was an administrative seat for the Duchy (and later Principality) of Hanover. Shortly after the first settlement of New Brunswick in colonial New Jersey, George, Duke of Brunswick-Lüneburg, and Elector of Hanover, of the House Of Hanover (also known as the House of Brunswick), became King gGeorge I of Great Britain (1660-1727)
This all reminds me of Cape Cod where there is a city and county mistakenly called Barnstable, whereas the original in Devon UK is Barnstaple (often mispelt in the UK too). interestingly these two cities are twinned
Also Bridgewater in Somerset county New Jersey is possibly named after the original in Somerset county UK and should therefore have been spelt Bridgwater.
Here endeth today's Geography and History lessons , ladles and jellyspoons

[Peter Bro10]

And once again we digress... but having fun all the same!

[Jesse Joe]

I had not notice this morning that this was the Louise from Moncton. You dont post often is right. I remember your posting after the Lightfoot concert in Moncton, 05/11/2007. And did not hear from you since...

Has for you Sir John, I have never heard of Moncton NS. But it is pronounce Monckton here in NB.

[Jesse Joe]

I bet we dont hear from Louise again for another year ???

[Louise]

Okay, okay .... I'll try to post more often!

I'm kind of new to the discussion group thing. But thanks for making me feel welcome!

Louise

[Jesse Joe]

Only kidding Louise post only if you want too. Especially if you have Gordon Lightfoot stories to share.

[Jagfred]

Lot's of good guesses and speculation, but here is the true scoop.

CUTTING CORNERS. In ancient times there was a practice of "stemming gold". In such days, coins were made of precious metals. It was a known practice for people to trim minuscule portions of gold from the edge of gold coins, collecting those pieces, melting them down and thereby increasing their profit. Eventually, coins came to have "edge ridges" so that such practice could be detected.

I hope that sets the record straight.
JagFred

[charlene]

Lots of possible valid answers. None moreso than another in a general context.
In terms of the song I don't think it fits tho..

"See the drunkard in the tavern stemming gold to make ends meet"

I don't see drunks trimming gold off of coins and melting them down..I figure they were panhandling/begging to be able to afford another drink..much like they do nowadays on the streets of many cities and towns around the world..

[jj]

Originally Posted by Jagfred

[FONT=Tahoma][B] Eventually, coins came to have "edge ridges" so that such practice could be detected.

interesting, thanks...so this is also where the term cutting corners also came from...sounds like this came from a pretty neat website

i have a few of old ridgeless coins (inherited) and i wonder how many of them may have been stemmed....i wonder why they got rid of our multisided coins, i loved playing mini table football with them...much better for finger flicking than the round variety

[orangemonkies]

This line - stemming gold to make ends meet- means that the drunkard is taking gold coins and using a knife to shave arround the edges to remove small amounts of gold from the coin. This is the process known as stemming coins. It is the reason modern coins have a raised edge or rippled edge along them this is to prevent stemming - coins were originally copper gold or silver both silver coins and gold coins were stemmed and the resulting gold or silver shavings were sold to gold or silver smiths - this was an illegal act when coins were made of gold or silver - hence since the drunkard can see no other recourse he is comminging a crime which the penalty was death - it amounts to stealing gold from the king - in order to survive - stemming is still illegal hence the shape and profile of modern coinage. - is saying he is so poor and blows what little money he has on drink, he has to do this in order to - make ends meet - it has nothing to do with loading ships or gold panning. The whole song is about the problems of the society in question - Don Quixote- in the original novel was considered mad - but lightfoot is using his characture to paint the world itself as mad