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Old 11-15-2013, 03:22 PM   #1
GretschViking
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Default Lightfoot In Mono

Howdy Folks! Been a while since I've been here. Hope everyone is doing well.


I have a question about Lightfoot releases in monaural.


I am sure you are aware that back in the day, there were differences between mono and stereo mixes of Beatles, Monkees etc. recordings. It was common practice for each format to receive separate mixing sessions. Do the mono Lightfoot LP's sound any different or are they merely 2 to 1 fold downs from the stereo mixes? The one I am most interested in would be the US pressing of "Did She Mention My Name?" which seems to be a rather scarce item to locate. I ask about this release because by 1968, mono was being phased out and most mono Rock/Pop LP's released in the USA during that year were rather limited.


Thanks!


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Old 11-18-2013, 11:31 PM   #2
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Default Re: Lightfoot In Mono

I've got the first two albums in mono - and to my ears, they don't sound like entirely different mixdowns than just combining left and right.

You're right about the third album being rare in mono, before I gave up on searching for vinyl, I never spotted a copy for sale.

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Old 11-20-2013, 04:57 PM   #3
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Default Re: Lightfoot In Mono

Gretsch:
If the mono mixes were fold downs from 2 channel to mono, wouldn't that imply they were stereo to begin with? My point is, I would assume Gord was recorded in mono in the very early days, then when the record company wanted a stereo release, they would remix to put some info into the right and left channels with Gord equally between them. A perfect example is Neil Diamond's 2010 release "The Bang Years" where everything is in its original mono. Later Bang records remixed those songs into re-engineered "stereo".
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Old 11-21-2013, 03:49 AM   #4
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Default Re: Lightfoot In Mono

Thanks for your responses.

Rob1956,


A fold down is merely the stereo image combined to one channel. It was usually done in place of having to actually mix the music to mono at a separate mixing session. What you are referring to is known as "fake stereo" where a mono mix is doubled with one channel heavy on bass and the other heavy on treble. It always winds up sounding horrible. From what I recall, Lightfoot's first three albums were mixed to true stereo- and unless they were later remixed- are readily available on CD. I ask if the mono pressings sound different because albums like The Beatles' "Revolver" and "Sgt. Pepper" are both completely different listening experiences in both formats.
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Old 11-21-2013, 09:40 AM   #5
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Default Re: Lightfoot In Mono

Ok, got ya. Would the reason for mixing a stereo recording down to mono be to sell records to people with mono phono cartridges?
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Old 11-21-2013, 12:35 PM   #6
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Default Re: Lightfoot In Mono

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob1956 View Post
Ok, got ya. Would the reason for mixing a stereo recording down to mono be to sell records to people with mono phono cartridges?
This has become an interesting thread
I believe that the fact is that in the early days of Stereo vinyl relatively few people could afford the extra cost of a stereo turntable/pickup/amplifier/loudspeakers and the record companies saw a golden opportunity to milk the market from the poor suckers who had stereo units and for some time offered many if not all albums in both Mono and Stereo pressings the stereo versions being priced higher and they got away with it despite it being patently obvious that the material costs of Mono and Stereo discs were identical
In early 1967 I only had a simple Mono record player and therefore I am pretty sure that in April that year my first ever Lightfoot album Lightfoot! purchased in the old Morgans store in Montreal's Dorval Shopping Centre was a cheaper Mono pressing. from TWIF onwards I shelled out big bucks (3 canabucks plus) and bought the stereo versions
I recall the excitement in the late 50's or early 60's when my grandfather acquired an expensive new "radiogram" with stereo, and I still have the UK Decca demonstration record "A Journey into Stereo Sound" that he bought
great stereo effects for example a ping pong game and the Ceremony of the Keys at the Tower of London, a nice recent review is at:-
Amazon.com: A Journey Into Stereo Sound . . . An...Amazon.com: A Journey Into Stereo Sound . . . An...

HRRMPH that web page and image is no longer available but there is a picture on that Amazon page after all
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Old 11-21-2013, 07:18 PM   #7
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Default Re: Lightfoot In Mono

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob1956 View Post
Ok, got ya. Would the reason for mixing a stereo recording down to mono be to sell records to people with mono phono cartridges?

Yup. Easy process.
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Old 11-21-2013, 07:25 PM   #8
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Default Re: Lightfoot In Mono

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnfowles View Post
This has become an interesting thread
I believe that the fact is that in the early days of Stereo vinyl relatively few people could afford the extra cost of a stereo turntable/pickup/amplifier/loudspeakers and the record companies saw a golden opportunity to milk the market from the poor suckers who had stereo units and for some time offered many if not all albums in both Mono and Stereo pressings the stereo versions being priced higher and they got away with it despite it being patently obvious that the material costs of Mono and Stereo discs were identical
In early 1967 I only had a simple Mono record player and therefore I am pretty sure that in April that year my first ever Lightfoot album Lightfoot! purchased in the old Morgans store in Montreal's Dorval Shopping Centre was a cheaper Mono pressing. from TWIF onwards I shelled out big bucks (3 canabucks plus) and bought the stereo versions
I recall the excitement in the late 50's or early 60's when my grandfather acquired an expensive new "radiogram" with stereo, and I still have the UK Decca demonstration record "A Journey into Stereo Sound that he bought
great stereo effects for example a ping pong game and the Ceremony of the Keys at the Tower of London, a nice recent review is at:-
Amazon.com: A Journey Into Stereo Sound . . . An Introduction to FFSS [LP Record]: Music




Cool story! I love Canadian pressings and have many LP's and 45's in my collection. All different bands/singers. I always thought it fascinating that most of the British Invasion people wound up on the "Capitol Of Canada" label. It's weird seeing records by The Dave Clark Five, Freddie & The Dreamers, Gerry & The Pacemakers etc. on the Beatles Capitol swirl label! I love it!


Yes. In the USA, stereo LP's usually cost one dollar more and that format was considered a luxury. Most younger fans went for the cheaper mono pressings which, funny enough, usually sound better and more full than the stereo. In Beatle land, stereo was done as an after thought and George Martin & Co. would only spend an hour or so creating them for each album. Up until about 1968/69, mono always took precedence. I am wondering if the recordings of Lightfootville were approached in the same manner? The one thing that worries me is that sometimes, fold downs were released in Canada with the true mono mixes in the USA and vice versa. I might have to pick up both the US and Canadian mono Lightfoot LP's to see where we stand.
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Old 11-22-2013, 03:58 AM   #9
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Default Re: Lightfoot In Mono

It's been years since I listened to my copies of the first two LPs in mono, but if you'd like I could certainly give them a 2nd listen the next time I'm able to access them, and see how feel they compare to the stereo versions.
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Old 11-22-2013, 11:23 PM   #10
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Default Re: Lightfoot In Mono

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy T. View Post
It's been years since I listened to my copies of the first two LPs in mono, but if you'd like I could certainly give them a 2nd listen the next time I'm able to access them, and see how feel they compare to the stereo versions.

Yes! Please do!
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Old 12-14-2013, 10:04 PM   #11
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Default Re: Lightfoot In Mono

Okay, I listened and recorded the two Mono records. Looking at my collection I find I have a British copy of DSMMN, where they used the High Fidelity (mono) cover art, but the record is the stereo version.

On Lightfoot! - I'm not sure if I actually listened to this copy before. Because there is a noticable change on the first track that I would have noticed and remembered.... Rich Man's Spiritual - it's an entirely different take, the guitar work and the lyrics are a bit different in places.

That's the only song that appears to be different in that way though.The other songs appear to be straightforward mono mixes same takes as the stereo album.

The speed is another thing - I have a professional turntable that locks in the speed exactly, and when trying to sync them against CD-MP3 rips on my computer, they did not match in speed. I had to speed it up with the pitch control on every song, some more than others, to match. That was just when doing some comparisons though, when I recorded the album I did it at 33.33 RPM

Other differences I noticed:

Pride of Man - has a shorter intro.

Early Morning Rain, fades at the end.

If you want it, it's here:

http://www.filefactory.com/file/6tneq4t6u711/GL1-M_rar

Now, for THE WAY I FEEL LP:

My copy was in poor shape when I bought it - at the time it was the first copy I had of the album so I'm pretty familiar with it. Everything is about the same as the stereo version except the speed. While LIGHTFOOT! ran slower than CD-MP3 rips, TWIF tracks run faster.

My copy is in pretty bad shape. I ran some click removal but that only removes so much. Link:

http://www.filefactory.com/file/1nya0xdsgo27/GL2-M_rar


-Andy
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Old 12-17-2013, 05:04 PM   #12
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Default Re: Lightfoot In Mono

thanks Andy!
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Old 12-17-2013, 08:15 PM   #13
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Default Re: Lightfoot In Mono

I see no one's downloaded either of those yet. Granted, the 2nd album is pretty scratchy, and really, the only song that really is noteworthy is Rich Man's Spiritual... I'm running out of FTP space or I'd put just that one song up for d/l. I wish I could attach it here... but mp3s aren't one of the attachable formats. Wait a sec, I see zip files are attachable and up to 5MB in size.

Nope, it hangs up when I try to upload-attach it in a zip file.

Oh well...

-Andy
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Old 07-04-2017, 11:18 PM   #14
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Default Re: Lightfoot In Mono

Hello all!


I am still in search for a US mono "Did She Mention My Name" LP. I have yet to find anything. Not even a photo.

I did buy a UK mono but it sounds rather flat which means it's probably a fold down from the stereo.

Does anyone have any info or photos of the the US mono?


Thanks!


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Old 07-04-2017, 11:26 PM   #15
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Default Re: Lightfoot In Mono

Bump.
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Old 09-06-2017, 09:09 PM   #16
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Default Re: Lightfoot In Mono

I now own a Canadian release of Did She Mention My Name in mono. The record is in OK condition, well, one track is badly scratched. I recently copied it to my computer and I didn't spot anything unusual with the mixes, as with TWIF, it seems like a bland fold-down from stereo.
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Old 09-07-2017, 09:44 AM   #17
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Default Re: Lightfoot In Mono

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnfowles View Post
In early 1967 I only had a simple Mono record player and therefore I am pretty sure that in April that year my first ever Lightfoot album Lightfoot! purhased in the old Morgans store in Montreal's Dorval Shopping Centre was a cheaper Mono pressing. from TWIF onwards I shelled out big bucks (3 canabucks plus) and bought the stereo versions

I cannot access my LPs right now but I do recall being surpised after I had posted the reply above to find that the Canadian sleeve of my original copy of Lightfoot! shows that it was actually stereo after all.I no longer have the actual original LP because I made the mistake of lending it to a girl in my apartment block who evidently had a knitting needle fitted to her turntable so the disc was comprehensively ruined. Many years later back in the UK I found a UK reissue with the confusing title of "Early Lightfoot"

scanned in two halves then joined and saved (you can see the join)
I opened up its sleeve and stuck the two halves of the original Canadian sleeve inside to create a unique "gatefold" sleeve that I must get Gordon to sign one day, as the bad copy was now redundant it got chucked out but I am pretty certain that the UK pressing is stereo, but I am unsure about my Canadian DSMMN or BHOEcopies. I must look them out and check when I get the chance.
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Old 09-07-2017, 10:31 PM   #18
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Default Re: Lightfoot In Mono

GV above asked for images of the album in mono. Like I said, it's very close to the UK release with GV said they had. But I'll stick in attachments of images of both.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DSMMN-UK.jpg (84.3 KB, 67 views)
File Type: jpg DSMMN-mono.jpg (83.1 KB, 64 views)
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