How Do You Feel About This.

[Affair on Touhy Ave.]

It must be a wonderful feeling to play a musical instruments and even write music, and maybe beome famous from it.

But what if you're forced to learn to play.

I found this site though Alyssa Bernal's page, which is under the thread " Do You Think This Young Lady Will Make It? .

http://www.youtube.com/user/ilajil

Haven't checked out his stuff as much, but if you read his bio, he says he was forced play piano.

Now the brightside is he enjoys it now, but to force a kid to do something which should be fun to me is bothersome. Don't you think?


I just posted an interview for Alyssa and one part the guy asks about her learning the guitar, which she began to do not long before the interview. She mentioned it was a gift from her dad and she claims he didn't expect her to try it out.

I thought "what?" Why did he even bother getting her one?

Both she and AJ come from musical backgrounds but when you heard such negatives, it sounds discouaging when one is forced to play and insterument and another parent expects to little from their kid.

Don't get it.


Anway hears a song in which he didn't write, but dedicated it to a fan who had a rare heart disease and was going to get operated on.

YouTube- Falling Slowly - Swell Season (Jess...

[jj]

Originally Posted by Affair on Touhy Ave.

But what if you're forced to learn to play.

I found this site though Alyssa Bernal's page

cute kid, maybe someone should have forced her to take guitar (and singing) lessons ....you asked

[DawnsMinstrel]

Hi Affair,

I think your question involves issues that are deeper than one might first think. It's interesting to me how easy it is for us to question whether a child should be forced to learn music, while it doesn't occur to us nearly so easily to ask if they should be forced to learn mathematics, or their language for example. Why is it obvious that they should be made to go to school to learn these things while music is viewed as being optional? Given the universality of music in human cultures it seems to me that we have to ask if music really should be viewed this way.

It's been known for a while from research in cognitive neuroscience that early study of music helps children develop their spatial reasoning skills and that these in turn give them a crucial advantage in mathematics. I'm a physicist by training and in physics departments the world over it's harder to find a colleague who doesn't play an instrument or sing than it is to find one who does.

Just a few days ago a study came out that has shown that music and language are interconnected. That is to say that the same neurological equipment we use to engage in music overlaps the equipment we use to engage in speech and that people who've suffered ischemic strokes have been able to relearn speech by being taught to sing what they want to say.

So if we're going to ask if children should be forced to learn music, it seems to me that this question may turn out to be as important as asking whether we should be forcing our children to learn anything at all. I'm not saying I've got the answer either. I just think it's trickier than it seems.

-Tim

[Affair on Touhy Ave.]

You may have a point there.

But then again not every study on such things is right though I'm not saying I think it's wrong either.

It still seems odd to me to force something like music on someone though obviously some thing you gotta learn when you're growing up.

Of course I must look on the bright side of this that he does enjoy what he does now as we can see.

[charlene]

a child will say 'force' while a parent sees it as 'encouragement' -
regardless whether it is academics, art, music or sport...that's just how it is..

been there, done that..got the grey hairs to prove it..
but i have one very musically talented son now.
and one piano for sale..
lolol

as a youngster classical piano lessons/practice were battles with my son. he excelled throughout but as a parent I had to maintain constant 'encouragement' to keep a young mind focussed..
when he wanted to go to a fine music college in toronto it was arranged for him to register and audition on guitar (not piano)...he was accepted.
but the 'encouragement' offered to a young man now, no longer a child, meant nothing so no enrollment happened.
perhaps i should have 'forced' him.
the gift of musical talent should be nurtured, encouraged and yes indeed, if necessary - 'forced.' The years of practice and lessons in conservatory piano taught my son a lot about music he would never have learned otherwise.
we'd not have some of the most brilliant artists, musicians, academic minds, and sports figures if not for the 'force', time, encouragement, sacrifice and money of a parent.

did i mention i have a piano for sale??

[Affair on Touhy Ave.]

I guess we all have our own thought about these things and if it were me, while I probably wouldn't force my kids, I would probably get on them a bit if I thought they were giving uo too easily.

I wonder of Allyssa's parents were as encouraging?


There was an event last summer in San Diego were she attended called FAP

Here's a clip from it.

YouTube- Showstopper - Alyssa Bernal & AJ...

BTW that's AJ with her.

I don't know if there's anything that shows her in inconfident but if not this clip, some others with her have comments by people thinking she does lack confience in herself.

I could be wrong, if this is the first time she'd ever performed in front of so many people, then obviously it's understandable.

I have to log off now but I will continue later on.

[charlene]

as I said - what a child says is 'force' is usually a parents 'encouragement'...it's the naure of a parent child dynamic when a child wants something but doesn't want to do the work involved. As parents we sometimes know what is best for those children..letting a child just stop/give up can be a setup for alifetime of walking away from lifes challenges...imho.

[DawnsMinstrel]

I'm inclined to agree with Char. If you think about it, most of what a child does in early life is "forced." They are forced to learn to use the toilet, use utensils when eating, tie their shoes, put their coats on when they go outside in cold weather, sleep at a certain time, bathe at a certain time, brush their teeth at a certain time, wash their hands and so on.

Most of this is cultural training - not all cultures eat with utensils for example, indians use their hands. There was a time in western culture not so very long ago when it would have sounded preposterous to most people to say that all children should be taught how to read for example. And yet, among the aristocracy of the times, it was considered obligatory to learn Latin and Greek, and aristocratic women were expected to play music on keys or strings or both.

So that it sounds "strange" to us to suggest that music education should be obligatory is in my view a result of cultural bias. When my mother was young her father would tell her that reading was a waste of time. If he saw her sitting in a chair with a book he would accuse her of being lazy. See what I mean? Think of all the fathers out there - especially in the States who take a dim view of sons who don't take an interest in sports. I'm not as familiar with how seriously sports are taken in Canada, but how would a typical Canadian father feel about a son who has no interest in hockey? Am I stereotyping here? Just curious.

[charlene]

Hockey is king here but soccer is too..basketball as well and baseball and football. The diversity of our population at this point in time has Canadians and their kids (boys and girls) trying all kinds of sports. Kids from countries where soccer or even cricket is the major sport are learning hockey. Lacrosse plays a part in many hockey players younger lives. I have a friend who has 3 girls, they are now 15, 17 and 20 and have all played hockey since they were 5 and 6 years of age, traveling with their teams all over Canada and the U.S. One is a goalie. When not playing hockey they play soccer.
I was very happy that my son chose music.(he did try skating)
I hate the cold and early mornings. Together they are a lethal combination for me.There's not enuf Tim Horton coffee in Canada to get me to a cold rink at 5 a.m.
LOL
The piano is in the living room and the teacher was around the corner.


( I took figure skating lessons for years as a kid at an outdoor rink...so I know about cold! )

Canada/hockey - it's in our blood regardless of whether we play or not.

wow I did not have any say in these matters so I sure felt like I was being 'forced' to take piano lessons, etc. I would have preferred dance and horseback riding lessons (which I did get some, but not regularly). And I wasn't too happy with my mom when she enrolled us in Lassie League without asking us 1st. So not having a choice or say in the matter IS being forced.

I did take dance lessons from my cousin when I was 3-4, but my mother pulled us out because she didn't like my cousins' teaching methods (yelling...she was loud, but I idolized her so I didn't mind). I used to beg my mom to let me go back.

Piano -I was 10. My sister and I were looking forward to this, but it wasn't a good environment. Our teachers son had ADD and she used to do things like tie him to a chair to keep him quiet and still for our lessons. I felt so bad for the boy that I rushed through my lesson so he could be untied and I could play with him while my sister had her lesson.

My parents didn't know about this until I couldn't take it any longer and started skipping my lessons (and got caught). Once we told them what had been going on, we didn't have to go back.

On that note...I have to disagree with Char and Dawns . And NO WAY did I force my son into toilet-training, etc.

[charlene]

I'm speaking of encouraging children who have expressed a wish to participate in something or show an extraordinary talent and are actually involved in the decision to take lessons.
Parent's just deciding on lessons for a child and making them attend is wrong.

[Affair on Touhy Ave.]

Originally Posted by charlene

as I said - what a child says is 'force' is usually a parents 'encouragement'...it's the naure of a parent child dynamic when a child wants something but doesn't want to do the work involved. As parents we sometimes know what is best for those children..letting a child just stop/give up can be a setup for alifetime of walking away from lifes challenges...imho.

Charlene:

I read what you posted the first time and I'm not saying I totally disagree with you but I can see it both ways.

There's a time to say yes and there's a time to say no.

There's a time to be strict and there's a time not to.

I could go on but I'll stop here. I have mixed feelings on such things.


Maybe there are times , including music where you should make them continue especially if you think they're giving up too easily and if they look back now and are greatfull, than I will say you did the right thing.

When I first discovered Alyssa's YT site, there was one vid, (which has since been removed) where she's singing and playing guitar, and she seemed to have done well, but at the end she says, "I'll just stick to singing." Obviously doubted herself when she was doing well.

Of course she has stuck to both playing and the one's I already posted were made after that without her expressing doubts though you don't see her playing at the festival which might mean there's still some insecurity on her part and then I maybe wrong.

If so maybe her folks have not been as supportive.

Even in that Youtraxs interview she expresses her dad doubted her inspite getting her a guitar.

I could be wrong on my last statements or my thoughts on her being inconfident but if not It's ashame and I'm glad many here have supported your kids reaching their goals and are doing well.

[charlene]

I totally agree about 'a time to' ..
My son was not always gung-ho about lessons/practice etc. We had battles. He was age 7 - 13 or so.
He had talent - but was prone to 'laziness' and that is when a parent/teacher needs to step in with 'encouragement'...
After age 13 and his focus changed to guitar we both saw that his piano lessons had been invaluable to what he carried forward to his guitar playing and were well worth the time, effort,doubts and tears..and along the way he entertained many people and proudly won a few Kiwanis festivals. All are invaluable to a young person's self esteem and confidence in themself, their abilities to learn and do what is necessary to accomplish those things. Great life lessons.. I had no doubt that despite the occassional grumblings, piano lessons would be one of the best things my son would ever partake in. So many lessons learned about himself ... and along the way he learned to play the piano too.
The piano is still for sale...

[Auburn Annie]

For us as children this was a moot issue - 9 kids leave $0 for anything more expensive than wax paper and a comb, lol. I believe my brother John had a few guitar lessons when he was a teen, and he still plays once in a blue moon, but otherwise, no.

For our kids, Kyle started in hockey but lacked the killer instinct so after 2 years he switched to baseball, staying with it from T-ball through Little League. He was good but not scholarship material; he was in it for fun.

Rachel loved gymnastics, starting around age 5. We knew she was never going to the Olympics - so did she - but as long as she enjoyed it, we funded it (and travelled all the heck over the place for meets - ugh.) After about 5 years the novelty had worn off, the bruising and injuries and workouts were getting to be a pain, literally, and she became unsure whether or not to continue. Eventually the club we were with folded into another one in the next town which pretty much put the cap on it for her. I was much relieved, having every thump she took when she missed a dismount or caught her hip on the beam reverberate through my body. And then she moved on to the social dramas of middle school - a whole 'nother sport in itself.

Originally Posted by Affair on Touhy Ave.

Charlene:

I read what you posted the first time and I'm not saying I totally disagree with you but I can see it both ways.

There's a time to say yes and there's a time to say no.

There's a time to be strict and there's a time not to.

I could go on but I'll stop here. I have mixed feelings on such things.


Maybe there are times , including music where you should make them continue especially if you think they're giving up too easily and if they look back now and are greatfull, than I will say you did the right thing.

When I first discovered Alyssa's YT site, there was one vid, (which has since been removed) where she's singing and playing guitar, and she seemed to have done well, but at the end she says, "I'll just stick to singing." Obviously doubted herself when she was doing well.

Of course she has stuck to both playing and the one's I already posted were made after that without her expressing doubts though you don't see her playing at the festival which might mean there's still some insecurity on her part and then I maybe wrong.

If so maybe her folks have not been as supportive.

Even in that Youtraxs interview she expresses her dad doubted her inspite getting her a guitar.

I could be wrong on my last statements or my thoughts on her being inconfident but if not It's ashame and I'm glad many here have supported your kids reaching their goals and are doing well.

I thought that too, I think you're right. Self-deprecating remarks like that may reflect some lack of self-confidence, insecurity etc. Positive youth delvelopment is SO important and young people need to start early with not doubting their abilities/talents.

Originally Posted by Auburn Annie

For us as children this was a moot issue - 9 kids leave $0 for anything more expensive than wax paper and a comb, lol. I believe my brother John had a few guitar lessons when he was a teen, and he still plays once in a blue moon, but otherwise, no.

For our kids, Kyle started in hockey but lacked the killer instinct so after 2 years he switched to baseball, staying with it from T-ball through Little League. He was good but not scholarship material; he was in it for fun.

Rachel loved gymnastics, starting around age 5. We knew she was never going to the Olympics - so did she - but as long as she enjoyed it, we funded it (and travelled all the heck over the place for meets - ugh.) After about 5 years the novelty had worn off, the bruising and injuries and workouts were getting to be a pain, literally, and she became unsure whether or not to continue. Eventually the club we were with folded into another one in the next town which pretty much put the cap on it for her. I was much relieved, having every thump she took when she missed a dismount or caught her hip on the beam reverberate through my body. And then she moved on to the social dramas of middle school - a whole 'nother sport in itself.

awww and I hope, I mean...I didn't mean to sound like I've been ungrateful for the lessons and the opportunities that I did have. I knew my parent's couldn't afford some of the things I wanted to do. And I did get to do some things that I wanted to.

[Wheels]

I'm a believer in the gentle nudge. If it's a "not interested" from the kids
that was the end of it when my kids were younger.

[timetraveler]

Originally Posted by Affair on Touhy Ave.

It must be a wonderful feeling to play a musical instruments and even write music, and maybe beome famous from it.

But what if you're forced to learn to play.

I found this site though Alyssa Bernal's page, which is under the thread " Do You Think This Young Lady Will Make It? .

http://www.youtube.com/user/ilajil

Haven't checked out his stuff as much, but if you read his bio, he says he was forced play piano.

Now the brightside is he enjoys it now, but to force a kid to do something which should be fun to me is bothersome. Don't you think?


I just posted an interview for Alyssa and one part the guy asks about her learning the guitar, which she began to do not long before the interview. She mentioned it was a gift from her dad and she claims he didn't expect her to try it out.

I thought "what?" Why did he even bother getting her one?

Both she and AJ come from musical backgrounds but when you heard such negatives, it sounds discouaging when one is forced to play and insterument and another parent expects to little from their kid.

Don't get it.


Anway hears a song in which he didn't write, but dedicated it to a fan who had a rare heart disease and was going to get operated on.


YouTube- Falling Slowly - Swell Season (Jess & AJ)

I think that it's all kinds of wrong to force a kid to learn a thing or to do a thing that they either don't like or for any reason makes them feel uncomfortable, especially if they are going to be made to do it in public. Kids have enough to worry about in this life, sothey don't need the added problem of their parennts trying to make them do something that could embarrass them in public. I mean, can you imagine how a child feels after taking lessons for ages just to suit the family, only to find that they aren't that good? I've even seen cases where when the kid doesn't do as well as the parents want them to, the parents will berate & belittle the kid.

[Affair on Touhy Ave.]

That's kind of how I feel in such instances though I see doing some pushing at times when one is inconfident and not trying.

Now in the case of Alyssa and AJ performing, they weren't forced to perform, She's 20 now and he's either the same age or older.

She already has finished an album which hasn't been released yet and I think he's unsigned.

It's hard to make any judgements on what's should and should not be done, in AJ's case it must of helped though I don't agree in forcing someone to learn an instrument inspite of his sucess.

As for Alyssa, I almost have a feeling they weren't as encouraging, then it could of been the opposite and they went too far.

Who knows.