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Old 02-21-2008, 01:02 PM   #1
Judy Szabo
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Default Patriots Dream

I am struck by how timeless the words to PD are. Here in the US we are living through a nightmare of war in Iraq. I really feel he had the whole idea of unjust war nailed with that song years ago. How can you be a patriot without killing and maiming your finest youn men in their optomistic,invincible youth? The old men sit at a safe distance calling the shots while the young are slaughtered or mentally changed for life. I would like to call myself a patriot, but my country makes that impossible when they act so irresponsibly with young lives. My military age sons will never join or be sacrificed for such idiotic decisions by a Government that sends them in harms way. Gord had it right a long time ago. Give this song another listen. It certainly resonates with me!
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Old 02-21-2008, 02:05 PM   #2
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Default Re: Patriots Dream

Yep, Lightfoot made his point eloquently in this song, along with tunes such as "Protocol", and SDYS.

So......"let us pray for the ones they call the children of today".

Last edited by RM; 02-21-2008 at 02:15 PM.
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Old 02-21-2008, 02:56 PM   #3
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Default Re: Patriots Dream

...and don't forget one of Gord's earliest anti-war songs (Unreleaced)

Echoes Of Heroes

Now the echo of the heroes is heard everywhere
In the conflict of old in the times of despair
All down through the ages the voices do ring
They cry out of victory and of freedom they sing

And the echo of the laughter and the songs that they sung (sang)
The whine of the steel and the roar of the guns
And the tolling of the bell and the cries of the lame
And the echoes of heroes roll down through the ages to remind us again

In the fields of Flanders the brave ones do lie
At Verdun and Ypres where a million men died
From the Marne to the Somme to the Normandy shore
Their spirits go marching where the wild eagles soar

On the land, in the sky, in the oceans they come
All onward they march as the drummers do drum
Their faces are bloody and their weapons are worn
Their bones are all shattered and their bodies all torn


Must this be the road we are travelling yet
Must this be the time when nations forget
All the sons and the fathers who joined in the fray
To be killed and destroyed and be buried in the clay
("the river is the melody, the sky is the refrain")
Canoeing -
Luthery -
Bugs! -
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Old 02-21-2008, 04:15 PM   #4
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Default Re: Patriots Dream

THis amazing song was passed along to me from Jerre who is friends with Taylor Pie:
This is her song: "So Little Has Changed" cut 12 at this link:

Jerre says Lightfoot told him that it reminded him of Echoes of Heroes..
I have it as an MP3 but can't post it for some
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Old 02-21-2008, 09:29 PM   #5
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Default Re: Patriots Dream

Originally Posted by RM View Post
Yep, Lightfoot made his point eloquently in this song, along with tunes such as "Protocol", and SDYS.

So......"let us pray for the ones they call the children of today".
Yes! Too Late for Praying is one of my all-time favorites. Beautiful song!

Portland OR USA

- if you meet him you will be/ the victim of his minstrelsy/ he'll sing for you a song

"You could wrap me around your finger"
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Old 02-22-2008, 04:53 AM   #6
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Default Re: Patriots Dream

Originally Posted by Judy Szabo View Post
I am struck by how timeless the words to PD are. Here in the US we are living through a nightmare of war in Iraq. I really feel he had the whole idea of unjust war nailed with that song years ago.
Judy, (and my fellow Corfiders) I send this as a reply, not as a thread starter. I also submit this reply as a lifelong fan of Gord, and one who sympathizes with the thought that Vietnam was an unjust war, but also as a veteran of the Iraq war who worked closely with Iraqis trying to rebuild their country. I spent nearly 6 months there in 2005. I befriended Iraqis who suffered deep, personal losses as a result of a very tyrannical regime. When an Iraqi gentleman sits across the table from you and tearfully describes how dear family members disappeared in the middle of the night at the hands of the Baath Party, never to be heard from again, and probably ending up in one of those mass graves, it makes an impression on you. When I grew up, I remember reading in school history books the run-up to WWII. In those books, the US and Europe were chastised for doing nothing while genocide of millions of Jews was going on inside Germany. We shouldn't forget that Saddam was guilty of atrocities on a Hitlerian scale. I saw it up close.

The purpose of this reply is not to start a sensitive political discussion on an emotional issue, but I feel compelled to gently make the point that there are powerful arguments on both sides. Thanks for your time and I hope I have not offended anybody.

With all due respect,
"Children are all that the Earth has to Show, Children are all that the Earth wants to Know"
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Old 02-22-2008, 07:36 AM   #7
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Default Re: Patriots Dream

Nicely said Tim. Thank you for your service to our country. As someone who tries to uphold the standards of "Semper Fidelis" I consider myself a man of peace. I also believe that peace through strength is the proper starting point. I love "The Patriot's Dream" and have listed it in my top ten many times. I also like the quote from President Reagan:

"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didnít pass it on to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children what it was once like in the United States when men were free.
Address to the annual meeting of the Phoenix Chamber of Commerce, (1961-03-30).

And I also believe that everyone has a right to their opinion. Thanks for sharing.

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Old 02-22-2008, 08:59 AM   #8
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Default Re: Patriots Dream

A refreshing thread, for a change, where people are actually expressing different opinions and not just saying "me too". I hope the dialogue remains as thoughtful as it has been so far.

Let me offer a few lyrics related comments. Echoes of Heroes was an "anti-war" song, but only in the sense that war is tragic, lives are lost, those who die are forgotten, and people (and nations) don't remember the lessons of previous conflicts. Hard to disagree with any of that. The historical references are to World War I and World War II.

The later songs were also anti-war, and they remained consistent to the theme that war is tragic, and the brave men who go to war are not remembered and not appreciated. But those songs were directly influenced by the Vietnam War, and in Lightfoot's manner since the late 1960s (and after Black Day In July) the political stance is not clearly stated. I have no doubt that Lightfoot - like many here and in Canada - thought the Vietnam War was wrong. But, you won't find a clear statement of that in any of the songs.

My personal favorite lyrics from among all his songs are:

"That war is not the answer, that young men should not die"

"See the soldier with his gun
Who must be dead to be admired"

Those two have been my favorites for years. I have intentionally left off the song names because I think most of you will know instantly.

Regarding Echoes of Heroes, I have always considered it both a turning point in Lightfoot's writing style, and his best unreleased song. When Eric Greenberg interviewed Lightfoot in 1999, one of the questions he asked was from me, about that song:

'EG: One song not represented [on Songbook] is Echoes of Heroes, which I've read someone call a turning point in your songwriting. Why wasn't it included?

GL: "I don't believe I'll ever be interested in putting that one out. I wrote much better protest songs. I wouldn't put that out." '

So, obviously, Lightfoot does not think as much of that song as many of us do!

You can read Eric's interview (and mine from 2002) at my web site:

You will find links to the interviews in the "Article Archive" (see navigation at top of page).
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