Character Persona

[HeyokaFilms]

Hello Friends,

[HeyokaFilms]

...I was thinking about some of the characters within Gordon's songs. When they (the characters) became animated parts of the personal experience, and then also when they were poetic persona in verse. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persona
... how those developments offered themselves as the character(s) as artistic expressions. Being created with an "natural intention" to stir and attach the emotions within the song. How beautiful indeed, Gordon created his works. (perhaps this is the wrong context, but...) as musical monologues, to us the audience, or sometimes as in a soliloquy of melodic verse to himself, (as an introspection). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soliloquy.
What joy it is being a witness of his talent, and ability to deliver emotional candor, within the context of so many diversely arranged songs! Any personal thoughts on this?
Cheers,
Christopher

[Cathy]

Why don't you post this into general discussion? A lot of people don't check the test forum. Test Forum is basically for experimenting, like how to attach a jpeg, seeing if your posts go through, etc.

I think you can copy and past this into the general forum and make a new thread.

Cathy

[RM]

Originally Posted by HeyokaFilms

Any personal thoughts on this?
Cheers,
Christopher

At the risk of exposing my shallow-thinking skills, I'll offer this :

I think Lightfoot's songs combine both storytelling and deep introspection.

'10 degrees And Getting Colder" - Storytelling. Though probably not a personal experience, it reflects his understanding of the travails of struggling musicians.

"If Children Had Wings". - Definitely introspective and personal.

Am I on the right track ?

[HeyokaFilms]

Originally Posted by RM

At the risk of exposing my shallow-thinking skills, I'll offer this :

I think Lightfoot's songs combine both storytelling and deep introspection.

'10 degrees And Getting Colder" - Storytelling. Though probably not a personal experience, it reflects his understanding of the travails of struggling musicians.

"If Children Had Wings". - Definitely introspective and personal.

Am I on the right track ?

Thanks Ron,
That's what I was getting at...anybody else have a perspective?
Cheers
Christopher

[Louise]

I believe Gordon has been uncomfortable with the song "For Loving Me" because of its chauvinistic tone. He has implied (I think) that the song is "tongue-in-cheek" and I've always understood it that way. He's created a persona, not speaking directly as himself, but giving us a character who boasts ("That's what you get for loving me") but is, ironically, alone in the end.

If someone misses the irony, I suppose they could be offended by the song .... but I think the voice is obviously a character.

Louise

[jj]

Originally Posted by Louise

I believe Gordon has been uncomfortable with the song "For Loving Me" because of its chauvinistic tone. He has implied (I think) that the song is "tongue-in-cheek" and I've always understood it that way. He's created a persona, not speaking directly as himself, but giving us a character who boasts ("That's what you get for loving me") but is, ironically, alone in the end.

If someone misses the irony, I suppose they could be offended by the song .... but I think the voice is obviously a character.

Louise

similar to the "character" he describes in YOU'LL STILL BE NEEDING ME

"Oh, my chauvinism rears its ugly head again. Unrequited love again, and I'm stinging, so I lash out at my love and say that she'll be needing me even though she believes she won't. I look back at it now a bit more philosophically, because it has a nice sound and the message isn't as severe as it seemed at the time. There's a lot of conceit involved; the character has some nerve."

[Louise]

Yeah .... "You'll Still Be Needing Me" is another good example of the same thing.

I've always thought that the reason Gord paired up "For Lovin' Me" with "Ribbon of Darkness" later in his career was to counter the chavinism in the first piece. "For Lovin' Me" is the boast, but "Ribbon of Darkness" is the admission by the character that he's blown it and has lost "since my true love walked out the door."

But maybe that's just obvious??

Louise

[Patti]

Once a couple years or so ago, I read something that Gordon said about worrying that he might be the most conceited person in the world and I was telling my oldest son, who is now 31, and he started laughing so hard.

[jj]

Originally Posted by Louise

Yeah .... "You'll Still Be Needing Me" is another good example of the same thing.

I've always thought that the reason Gord paired up "For Lovin' Me" with "Ribbon of Darkness" later in his career was to counter the chavinism in the first piece. "For Lovin' Me" is the boast, but "Ribbon of Darkness" is the admission by the character that he's blown it and has lost "since my true love walked out the door."

But maybe that's just obvious??

Louise

"Pride cometh before the fall" - Lightfoot (Songbook liner note re: this medley)

[Patti]

Originally Posted by jj

"Pride cometh before the fall" - Lightfoot (Songbook liner note re: this medley)

Yeah, right, and "The meek shall inherit the earth."

No more characters?

[timetraveler]

I'll be honest. The number one reason that I'm so nuts about his music is because of the fabulous stories that I hear in them.

[geodeticman.5]

Somebody smart help me here... I am having a hard time reasoning on a metaphor above I am normally so quick to jump in on and relate to and blabberty on..... I don't get the intended irony or wisdom, or play on words.... of
a: Pride cometh before the fall - from Gord's liner notes... I can't... make...
my..brain...work.... this one out duhhhhhhhhhh please help lol
vs. b. Pride goeth before a fall - the classic admonition from proverbs... I get that one...

thumping hand sideways on chest, rocking back and forth humming a single note endlessly.... Steve has finally lost his mind.... tonight....all my brains spilled out doing the Hal Shelton research Char came up with in her Hyperlinks in response to my Shelton
house and career post.....ah ah ahm a little tired now but aahl be okaaay..LOL

~geo Steve

[jj]

Originally Posted by geodeticman.5

Somebody smart help me here... I am having a hard time reasoning on a metaphor above I am normally so quick to jump in on and relate to and blabberty on..... I don't get the intended irony or wisdom, or play on words.... of
a: Pride cometh before the fall - from Gord's liner notes

here's the entire quote:

I'M NOT SAYIN'/RIBBON OF DARKNESS
"On Sunday Concert we combined two early songs, partly to save a little time in concert. "I'm Not Sayin'" was probably the better of the two, and "Ribbon Of Darkness" was a #1 country hit for Marty Robbins. "I'm Not Sayin'" is about noncommitment, and a little bit of that sexist thing comes into play here. "Ribbon Of
Darkness" is about the demise of the relationship. The two of them go well together, with the first song being about a man telling a woman it's my way or the highway, and in the second song she's left and he's licking his wounds. Pride cometh before the fall."

isn't excessive pride the tragic flaw we see in so many classic and even modern tales of our time? ie. citizen kane, scarlett o'hara, julius caesar (or maybe it was ambition in his case, I can't recall)

I'm not good at this game...I realize my shallowness is revealed when I confess that I've quite rarely sat and focused on his lyrics in all these years, I'll get there some day

if every song he wrote was about ham and eggs I'd still be intrigued...although his lyrics deserve the highest of praise, it's the melodies, vocal phrasings, chord progressions, arrangements, tempos and guitar fills that I still find most infectious...I realize I'm in the minority

[jj]

received an e-mail correcting me: apparently scarlett's tragic flaw was that she was a bitch, lol

question: has any list of all "named" characters found in GL songs ever been tackled?

you know Mr Hoot and Holler (my fave), Bill Winner, Little Allison, Jesse Jo, etc, etc

I can find the Geography reference listing at Wayne's site (http://www.lightfoot.ca/glgeog.htm) but nothing similar in the way of characters

I realize that's not what this thread's about but was just wondering out loud

[RM]

Originally Posted by jj

question: has any list of all "named" characters found in GL songs ever been tackled?
you know Mr Hoot and Holler (my fave), Bill Winner, Little Allison, Jesse Jo, etc, etc

Bill Winner ? I only know of a Bill Skinner. I believe he dated (Daylight) Katy and (Carefree Highway) Ann. There were rumors of an affair with Rosanna, but they were never confirmed.

[jj]

RM, you already have half the potential list completed in your clever reply, keep going!

yeah, a pink freudian slip with the Winner reference ...that's a sales guy who comes thru here occasionally and the guilt of not returning his messages lately may have been haunting my brain, lol....brain cramp aside, as I said, I haven't got a proper handle on GL lyrics/poetry, it should be a crime, I should probably do some time in the pillory

guess can add Mr. rock of ages ...maybe something to tackle on a rainy day, people

[RM]

Originally Posted by jj

RM, you already have half the potential list completed in your clever reply, keep going!

Well...I can try, but much is based on hearsay. I heard that Mr. Skinner and Miguel both sought the charms of (Oh) Linda. Miguel won. Skinner was then married for a brief period to (Farewell To) Annabel. Last I heard he was living a tranquil life with (Sweet) Guinevere.

[jj]

Originally Posted by RM

Last I heard he was living a tranquil life with (Sweet) Guinevere.

far away from Mr Hoot and Holler, no doubt

brilliant once again, rm

.... certainly keepin up with the Joneses (oh, there's another)

[charlene]

The Joneses? Were they John and Mary?

[RM]

Originally Posted by charlene

The Joneses? Were they John and Mary?

I believe you are correct. I think it was Long John Silver who witnessed the tree carving and later recounted the event in his autobiography, "My Summer with (Cotton) Jenny".

[geodeticman.5]

JJ - I know just what you mean about when you listen to Lightfoot, you are less in the minority than you think, imho.

Oh - and thank you for clarifying my temporary brain-dead lack of understanding the twist on pride goeth before a fall. I f I understand your explanation right - you are saying that by virtue of the song paring and order, the twist - That pride cometh before the fall... is from the first song in the medley being representativemetaphorically or implicitly of Pride, which cometh (the song) before "The fall" - intrinsic to the second song, where the proganist akes am emotional fall ? airre am I havn' it lad ? Is that the way of it ? I think I get it now . Yes ?

And I also, more often than not jj, when liste ing casually. not intently, to Lightfoot, listen to the melody, the "mood" of the song, phraseology, orchestration, and what I call "That Lightfoot feeling" - sctually I read that somewhere, even cited it recently, but don't remember where. That feeling is the better part of my enjoyment....memories songs invoke, pictures they paint, but i willtry to avoid digressing to all the near cliches of Gord's evocations.eg lyrical tapestries, etc. Its the feeling, as it were. that is what
frames my enjoyment. Sometimes i listen intently to lyrics- as in Heven Help the devil last night - as in "what does this freedom mean to me" et al...... thx JJ
geo steve

[jj]

Originally Posted by RM

Well...I can try, but much is based on hearsay. I heard that Mr. Skinner and Miguel both sought the charms of (Oh) Linda. Miguel won. Skinner was then married for a brief period to (Farewell To) Annabel. Last I heard he was living a tranquil life with (Sweet) Guinevere.

rm, my sis is visiting from Orillia (we are working on a video) ...so she was telling me that she had recently been chatting with a hair dressing customer who used to be friend's with Lightfoots... mainly Gord's elder sis back when they were small... she chuckled and reminisced about how wee Gord used to 'bug' them a lot, the way little brothers do...

anyhow, it turns out she is the widow of Bill Skinner ...I said to ask about the 'stream' next visit

[lighthead2toe]

Her name was Ann and she left me not what knowin' what to do. Yes, that happened.
Her nickname was Annabelle and the snow was falling when she left and the next day it rained.
But fear not, the Mountains and Marian are calling out to me.
So now it's Marian & me out west. (all old news but true)

But let's not forget Rosanna. She makes my day begin and if she would ever break away, I'd follow close behind her 'cause she rules my heart!

Fun topic guys, RJ.

[bjm7777]

At the risk of sounding "simple" (I can never be accused of being an intellectual), are perhaps in all of the characters of Gord's songs are a bit of Gord himself? Is Sweet Guinevere's mother a little like Gord's view of mothers?

Perhaps there were "compatibility issues" with Annabelle....jeez......