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Old 09-17-2010, 12:38 PM   #1
jj
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Default Guitarists: which songs does/did he play with capo in 3rd position?

CRT for example
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Old 09-17-2010, 03:20 PM   #2
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Default Re: Guitarists: which songs does/did he play with capo in 3rd position?

circle of steel & early morning rain?
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Old 09-17-2010, 03:56 PM   #3
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Default Re: Guitarists: which songs does/did he play with capo in 3rd position?

On The High Seas is another. Nice 6-string tune. (Circle of Steel is 1st fret IIRC, BTW)

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Old 09-17-2010, 06:34 PM   #4
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Default Re: Guitarists: which songs does/did he play with capo in 3rd position?

first, wow, an honour to have you reply here, matthew...hope all's well

for those unaware, matt is one who thanked in the Songbook compilation for helping spread the good word on the net way back when...a founding father

http://web.archive.org/web/199812031...fer/lightfoot/

ok, so this means OTHS is in Bb? i will have to dig up DSR and check it out...i didn't notice the capo positioning on the 79 Soundstage (speaking of digging stuff out!)

EMR, of course, thanks....a conflict regarding COS, eh...i guess the jury's out

didn't realize he's ever capo-ed 1st fret...has he ever played any without capo at all?

keep em comin...there must be a mittful, no?
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Old 09-17-2010, 10:15 PM   #5
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Default Re: Guitarists: which songs does/did he play with capo in 3rd position?

Going to see him in Oct so I'll see what he does on his present repertoire and let you know. I'm finding myself using the capo more now as the voice range shrinks. Gord may be doing the same??
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Old 09-17-2010, 11:06 PM   #6
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Default Re: Guitarists: which songs does/did he play with capo in 3rd position?

CRT and EMR are on third fret in concert on the twelve string. Not sure about six string guitar with third fret capo.
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Old 09-17-2010, 11:59 PM   #7
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Default Re: Guitarists: which songs does/did he play with capo in 3rd position?

I'm not positive, but I think he's played Don Quixote on the 3rd.
It also seems as if some album versions of various songs are recorded a half step lower but again, I'm not sure.
I'll bet that was helpful!
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Old 09-18-2010, 04:13 AM   #8
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Default Re: Guitarists: which songs does/did he play with capo in 3rd position?

pretty sure we have nailed the current set lists as only having EMR and CRT but yeah, check it out, tom...thanks

DQ, eh? in recent year's performances, i never noticed the 6 string w/capo+3 for any tunes...and didn't realize he was moving the capo about at all over the years (i highly recommend he moves it to 1st fret or take it off all together (control yourself, gals...lol)

re older tracks, i was wondering about Farewell to Annabelle, The Way I Feel?

i suppose we could list all the recorded key signatures of GL tunes, does this already exist?

i'm guessing a whole whack are in A, B, E...with EMR/CRT in F, etc...too bad nothing in G or D (i suppose Shadows is)

Last edited by jj; 09-18-2010 at 04:15 AM.
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Old 09-18-2010, 10:16 AM   #9
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Default Re: Guitarists: which songs does/did he play with capo in 3rd position?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unsettled 1 View Post
I'm not positive, but I think he's played Don Quixote on the 3rd.
check this out...seems like the 1st fret here...maybe he does move it around

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Old 09-18-2010, 10:49 AM   #10
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Default Re: Guitarists: which songs does/did he play with capo in 3rd position?

COTS and ODR. They are the only case where he moves the capo on stage, and that's why they are the last 6 string tune. (He plays DQ with capo in the normal 2nd fret position).
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Old 09-18-2010, 02:02 PM   #11
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Default Re: Guitarists: which songs does/did he play with capo in 3rd position?

i'm pretty sure the studio version of Circle of steel has it in the 3rd fret
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Old 09-20-2010, 12:27 PM   #12
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Default Re: Guitarists: which songs does/did he play with capo in 3rd position?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jj View Post
i suppose we could list all the recorded key signatures of GL tunes, does this already exist?
bet i could very quickly run down a song-by-song list of where the capo is. any interest in folks seeing that?

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Old 09-20-2010, 02:18 PM   #13
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Default Re: Guitarists: which songs does/did he play with capo in 3rd position?

more cool responses folks (yeah, that makes sense, val)

yeah, matt...i'd think many would but i'm actually just zeroing in on what actual key signatures the song are in (without going through all the tunes one by one with an instrument in hand)...i suppose most are in E, B, A (2 out of 3 of my least favourite keys, lol) meaning GL plays in friendly D, A, G guitar keys with capo+2...i've always jammed with guitarists playing in D, G or whatever without capos

i've got a list going that has guitar vs. actual key signatures and assume all but a half down are with capo in 2nd position (COTS, ODR, CRT, EMR plus some up for debate)

in summary, yeah, i'd like to know which are not in 2nd position..looking forward to other's continued input (btw, this aint the first time i've tried to get this chat going)

10 Degrees and Getting Colder
14 Karat Gold
A Lesson In Love
A Message To The Wind
A Minor Ballad
A Painter Passing Through
A Passing Ship
A Tree Too Weak To Stand
Affair On th Avenue
Alberta Bound
All I'm After
All The Lovely Ladies
Always On The Bright Side
Anything For Love
Apology
Approaching Lavender
Baby It's Allright
Baby Step Back
Ballad of Yarmouth Castle
Beautiful
Bells Of The Evening
Bend In The Water
Betty Called Me In
Biscuit City
Bitter Green
Bitter Green
Black Day In July
Blackberry Wine
Boathouse
Borderstone
Boss Man
Boss Man
Brave Mountaineers
Broken Dreams
Cabaret
Canadian Railroad Trilogy
Canadian Railroad Trilogy
Canary Yellow Canoe
Can't Depend On Love
Carefree Highway
Changes
Cherokee Bend
Christian Island (Georgian Bay)
Circle Of Steel
Clouds Of Loneliness
Cobwebs & Dust
Cold Hands From New York
Cold On The Shoulder
Cotton Jenny
Couchiching
Crossroads
Daylight Katy
Did She Mention My Name
Does Your Mother Know
Don Quixote
Don't Beat Me Down
Dream Street Rose
Dreamland
Drifters
Drink Yer Glasses Empty
Early Mornin' Rain
East Of Midnight
Ecstasy Made Easy
End Of All Time
Endless Wire
Fading Away
Farewell To Annabel
Fine As Fine Can Be
Flyin' Blind
For Lovin' Me
Forgive Me Lord
Ghosts Of Cape Horn
Go Go Round
Go My Way
Gotta Get Away
Hangdog Hotel Room
Harmony
Heaven Don't Deserve Me
Heaven Help The Devil
Hey You
High And Dry
Hi'Way Songs
Home From The Forest
I Used To be A Country Singer
I Want To Hear It From You
I'd Do It Again
I'd Rather Press On
If Children Had Wings
If I Could
If There's A Reason
If You Could Read My Mind
If You Got It
If You Need Me
I'll Be Alright
I'll Do Anything
I'll Prove My Love
I'll Tag Along
I'm Not Sayin'
I'm Not Sayin' / Ribbon of Darkness
I'm Not Supposed To Care
In A Windowpane
In My Fashion
Inspiration Lady
Is There Anyone Home
It's Too Late, He Wins
It's Worth Believin'
Keepin' On Yearning
Knotty Pine
Lazy Mornin'
Leaves of Grass
Let It Ride
Lifeline
Long Thin Dawn
Long Way Back Home
Looking At The Rain
Love and Maple Syrup
Magnificent Outpouring
Make Way For The Lady
Mama Said
Marie Christine
May I
Me And Bobby McGee
Miguel
Minstrel Of The Dawn
Mister Rock Of Ages
Morning Glory
Mother Of A Miner's Child
Mountains And Marian
Much To My Surprise
My Little Love
My Pony Won't Go
Never Say Trust Me
Never Too Close
No Mistake About It
Nous Vivons Ensemble
Now And Then
Ode To Big Blue
Oh, Linda
Old Dan's Records
On Susan's Floor
On The High Seas
On Yonge Street
Only Love Would Know
Ordinary Man
Peaceful Waters
Poor Little Allison
Pride Of Man
Protocol
Pussy Willows, Cat Tails
Pussywillows, Cattails
Race Among The Ruins
Rainbow Trout
Rainy Day People
Red Velvet
Redwood Hill
Remember Me (I'm The One)
Restless
Ribbon Of Darkness
Rich Man's Spiritual
Ring Them Bells
Ringneck Loon
River Of Light
Romance
Rosanna
Salute (A Lot More Livin' To Do)
Same Old Loverman
Saturday Clothes
Sea Of Tranquility
Second Cup Of Coffee
Seven Island Suite
Shadows
Shellfish
She's Not The Same
Sit Down Young Stranger
Sixteen Miles
Slide On Over
Softly
Softly
Someone To Believe In
Something Very Special
Sometimes I Don't Mind
Sometimes I Wish
Somewhere U.S.A.
Song For A Winter's Night
Songs The Minstrel Sang
Spanish Moss
Station Master
Stay Loose
Steel Rail Blues
Stone Cold Sober
Summer Side Of Life
Summertime Dream
Sundown
Sweet Guinevere
Talking In Your Sleep
Tattoo
Thank You For The Promises
That Same Old Obsession
The Auctioneer
The Circle Is Small
The Circle Is Small
The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face
The Gypsy
The House You Live In
The Last Time I Saw Her
The List
The Long River
The Lost Children
The No Hotel
The Patriot's Dream
The Pony Man
The Soul Is The Rock
The Watchman's Gone
The Way I Feel
The Way I Feel
The Wreck Of The Edmund Fitzgerald
Too Late For Prayin'
Too Many Clues In This Room
Too Much To Lose
Triangle
Uncle Toad Said
Unsettled Ways
Waiting For You
Walls
Welcome To Try
Wherefore And Why
Whisper My Name
Whispers Of The North
Why Should I Feel Blue
Wild Strawberries
Without You
You Are What I Am
You Just Gotta Be
You'll Still Be Needing Me
Your Love's Return
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Old 09-20-2010, 08:33 PM   #14
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Default Re: Guitarists: which songs does/did he play with capo in 3rd position?

All I can say is.... I wish he hadn't... play in the 3rd position that is . Especially now after we've live a little bit longer and we can't hit the notes.

Spanish Moss ...i think on 3 oringinally ...i've got it down to 1 LOL
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Old 09-21-2010, 12:02 PM   #15
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Default Re: Guitarists: which songs does/did he play with capo in 3rd position?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnStinson View Post

Spanish Moss ...i think on 3 oringinally ...i've got it down to 1 LOL
ok, thanks...i guess the 3rd position ones aren't so rare over the years

i believe these are some others, based on studio recordings anyhow:

She's Not the Same (guitar D - actual key F)
Triangle (as above)
Thank You for the Promises (as above)
Carefree Highway (as above)
DSR (as above)
Circle of Steel (as above)
Race Among(st?) the Ruins (as above)

I'll Do Anything - guitar G - actual key Bb

Beautiful - guitar A - actual key C

Daylight Katy - guitar C - actual key Eb

The circle is Small - guitar F - actual key Ab


there seems to also be many with capo on first fret (HHTD, IMF, BW...)

i suppose his current show simplifies (from a practical standpoint) by keeping them mainly in 2nd fret...as a consequence some may be actually higher pitch than his studio recordings (eg. Sundown, In My Fashion, Blackberry Wine?)

i've concluded there are many, many that he plays in a different key live vs the original studio version...i wonder if this was also the case with GG1 and GG2 off the floor recordings

Last edited by jj; 09-22-2010 at 12:35 PM.
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Old 09-21-2010, 07:57 PM   #16
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Default Re: Guitarists: which songs does/did he play with capo in 3rd position?

On teh question of any he plays with capo on the first fret Ordinary Man would qualify.

I don't think he believes in playing with no capo and certainly doesn't like moving the capo around which is no doubt a byproduct of being a fanatic about being absolutely in tune. Hard to do live.
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Old 09-21-2010, 09:01 PM   #17
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Default Re: Guitarists: which songs does/did he play with capo in 3rd position?

thanks for the food for thought, fezo

i think he has 18 guitars (not sure how many quality acoustic 6 strings) and would hope there's room on stage to add a dedicated 1st fretter up there...anyhow, i'm sure it's been tossed about by the master and his boys, and i'm just beating a dead horse here, lol

in toying with a capo, i've noticed how easy (well, in my case, i should say 'not as difficult') it is to move about the fretboard with capo up one or two frets...i end up overshooting some of the neck frets targeted... conversely, in GL's case, going capoless might present some muscle memory issues but after some conditioning those large fingers could stretch wherever he please...i am thinking a vocalist might need a more hearty wind (diaphragm reliance) to sing in a lower key and that could be what's at the root of the matter

Ordinary Man is in my top three...thanks again for the tidbit

well, i'm pretty keyed up in seeing if mr fifer follows through with his offer
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Old 09-24-2010, 01:45 PM   #18
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Default Re: Guitarists: which songs does/did he play with capo in 3rd position?

looks like i have some homework this weekend.

i'll do both: capo fret and actual key (expect a few zingers as my theory is rusty)

sound good?
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Old 09-24-2010, 02:04 PM   #19
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Default Re: Guitarists: which songs does/did he play with capo in 3rd position?

sounds good....i've sifted thru alpha-ordered (from A to G) song samplers from Amazon (which is missing many) and concluded that there a few one-offs from the typical 2nd fret placement

1st fret:
anything for love - Ab
crossroads - Ebm
fine as fine can be - Eb
high and dry - Db

3rd fret:
bells of the evening - F
bitter green - F (although in E on GG1)
circle of steel - F
cold on the shoulder - G*
cdn railroad trilogy - F
did she mention my name - G*
don't beat me down - Gm
early mornin rain - F
i want to hear it from you - F
the circle is small - Eb
the gypsy - C*

4th fret:
the first time ever i saw your face - F#

will be interested to see if this subset ties into what you come up with

this will be handy for jamming with those who prefer to stick to GL's original key

cheers

* = guitar voicing sounds as if capoed but can also just play w/o capo

Last edited by jj; 09-24-2010 at 02:16 PM.
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Old 09-26-2010, 12:06 PM   #20
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Default Re: Guitarists: which songs does/did he play with capo in 3rd position?

i had some fun with the guitar near the computer, and for the tunes i came across at amazon or my itunes:

seems about 30 are capo in 3rd position, primiarily in F

another 10 in 1st position

about half dozen in 4th or 5th positions

there are a few like DSMMN and ROD just played in G, no capo

same with Magnificent Outpouting but in D

definitively a heap of tunes in E, A or B...i did find about 25 in the key of D
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Old 09-26-2010, 03:16 PM   #21
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Default Re: Guitarists: which songs does/did he play with capo in 3rd position?

Of course this is assuming he's playing those third fret capo positions using the standard fingerings.

Don't forget, for those of you new to the guitar, that while capo position can change the key the song is played in, the capo can stay right where it is, the fingerings change to a new key, and off you go.

So with the capo at fret 2, playing in "G" is actually playing in "A", etc., but you can play in "A" just fine.

As far as CRT goes, I believe he's tuned that 12 string one fret down, so the capo at the third fret sounds like the second fret at concert pitch. He's also using dropped "D" tuning. The base "E" strings are dropped to "D". I play CRT that way too. That's why you see two different 12s during the concerts.
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Old 09-26-2010, 03:57 PM   #22
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Default Re: Guitarists: which songs does/did he play with capo in 3rd position?

Quote:
Originally Posted by New 12 String Mike View Post
Of course this is assuming he's playing those third fret capo positions using the standard fingerings.
...
As far as CRT goes, I believe he's tuned that 12 string one fret down, so the capo at the third fret sounds like the second fret at concert pitch. He's also using dropped "D" tuning. The base "E" strings are dropped to "D". I play CRT that way too. That's why you see two different 12s during the concerts.
wouldnt' that be odd, to loosen off the strings only to bring them back up with the capo...naw, i say it's all standard tunings other than drop D...he plays CRT in D guitar key with capo+3 taking it up to the key of F

the majority of the time when he has the capo up 3 fret, it's to take him to the key of F while benefiting from playing in D on guitar ....rather than having to play chords such as Gm Bb etc he may also prefer for chord voicing as well as minimizing fingering changes during passing chords

i also believe novices (even pros, lol) should hide the capo and play in A rather than G+2 ...GL often plays in D but achieves this playing in C+2....he also plays a few in G but strategizing playing in E+3

seems like GL's guitar keys are C D E G A as well as Dm Em and Am
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Old 09-26-2010, 07:27 PM   #23
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Default Re: Guitarists: which songs does/did he play with capo in 3rd position?

JJ.

I don't know that he does it, but it isn't odd to drop a 12 string's tuning at all. Many 12 string players do it as a standard practice. In fact, I'd say that a 12 at concert pitch would be the exception, not the rule.

Many players like the more gutsy sound. Some drop it because they mix the gauge of strings and don't go with lights, or extra lights. The heavier gauge string(s) would require dropping from standard pitch to protect the guitar.

There was a Acoustic Guitar piece on Gord and his guitar gear published a few years ago. If I remember it right, he did mix string gauges on the Gibsons.

Like I said, I'm not sure Gord does it, but low tuning a 12 is pretty well established.
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Old 09-27-2010, 07:18 AM   #24
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Default Re: Guitarists: which songs does/did he play with capo in 3rd position?

yeah mike, i drop my 6 a half tone so i can ply in Gb without having to capo up to 4th position while playing in D...if i try a whole tone i get some buzzing...i also like easing off strings cos i'm in a dry cool environment and all that tension has the neck eeking...i got rid of a Tak 12 for that reason but maybe i should have entirely tuned it down to D as you suggest

so, i get dropping down but not then offsetting with a capo, i'm not sure if you read that part of my reply

ie. so your hunch is that he would have a dedicated 12 dropped down a half or whole tone (-1 or -2) but then a capo would be place on to bring pitch back up and then some (+3)? (ie. drop one tone then put capo on 3rd position which net out to increasing the pitch by a half tone...why not just leave guitar in standard tuning and place capo in first position?)

a simpler example: drop the guitar a whole tone then place capo on second position (whole tone increase)...it nets out to no change in pitch so why bother? what i'm saying is i've never heard of mixing an overall dropped tuning of strings with capo use

anyhow, i've never heard CRT in any other key than F (capo 3rd fret meaning standard tuning of guitar where D chord formation is taken up to F)

i'm no guitar nut but i've love to browse that article: any online archive?
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Old 09-27-2010, 02:04 PM   #25
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Default Re: Guitarists: which songs does/did he play with capo in 3rd position?

Like 12-String Mike, I too was wondering about drop-down tuning (and also, w/capo). It's something I used to do regularly (with and w/o a capo) until I switched to using s&s strings. When using brass-wound, it's a must for me in order to get better tuning/tone/action.

After many years, I found I was having to tune down again when I bought a Yama APX500 (a nice little kick around guitar) last Spring. I didn't want to waste a new set of brass wounds...so I haven't put a set of s&s's on yet.

Unlike jj's cool/dry I had an issue with heat/humidity all summer, which has continued off and on. There's no A/C for my upper level here and I hadn't played the guitar all summer. I hadn't tuned down the strings and had left the capo on. I was upset with myself for neglecting it when I finally got around to picking it up and had 2-3 strings buzzing .

I had an issue with a single buzzing string that I wasn't able to resolve on the Ibanez I traded in for the Yama so I was thinking "not again" . It was another few weeks until I had a chance to deal with the buzzing strings on the Yama. Thought the neck seemed a little off just eye-balling it, but it checked out fine with a line level. Anyway, in no time I found that the pegs for these strings had popped slightly so that was an easy fix.

I did have a problem finding proper-fitting pegs for the Ibanez which was probably the issue that I had with the buzzing on that single string.

Back on track w/this thread, I also wondered if Gordon may have to tune down to compensate for any issue related to the environment affecting his guitar, string action or even acoustics, etc.
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