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Old 05-19-2009, 06:39 PM   #1
New 12 String Mike
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Default Another New 12 String Mike

Nope, not changing my name, but I did get another new 12 string today.

After seeing the Richmond, VA show, I wanted a "D" tuning 12 string.

The new one is a Martin D12X1.

Very easy to play, very even tones across the strings.

Gonna be some fun now, you bet.
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Old 05-19-2009, 08:13 PM   #2
fezo
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Default Re: Another New 12 String Mike

Oh, way cool!

That will be fun having a dedicated d tuning instrument.
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Old 05-19-2009, 09:23 PM   #3
charlene
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Default Re: Another New 12 String Mike

I will not pretend to know what the hell D tuning is but I'm happy for you!
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Old 05-19-2009, 11:41 PM   #4
bjm7777
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Default Re: Another New 12 String Mike

Well, what D-tuning is, is to drop the key of the low E string and its octave string from the key of E to D. Modal D tuning, on the other hand, would involve tuning the low and high E strings (and their octave or twin) to D.
To me, D-tuning the low E string gives a 12-string more "chorus" sound, or at least "expands" the sound. Examples of Gordon's songs with D-tuning would be "Canadian Railroad Trilogy", "I'm Not Sayin'", and "Early Morning Rain", to name a few. The guitar sounds "full" to me in those songs.....
(I have a Guild 12-string guitar).
I hope I have not misunderstood the posts here in that the interpretation was to tune the entire guitar down to D......
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Old 05-20-2009, 01:38 AM   #5
joveski
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Default Re: Another New 12 String Mike

isnt modal D tuning when the B-string is also dropped down an A? (DADGAD)
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Old 05-20-2009, 08:20 AM   #6
bjm7777
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Default Re: Another New 12 String Mike

Modal D- tuning. Try this link:

http://www.musicplayer.com/article/a...a/Jun-06/21312

The definition I provided earlier was the one I was taught, but I am open to correction of course. Thanks, Joveski.
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Old 05-20-2009, 11:14 AM   #7
fezo
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Default Re: Another New 12 String Mike

I don't do the full d tuning routine. The one where you just drop the low E to a D is called drop d tuning. Sounds great in the right keys - especially on a 12 string.
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Old 05-20-2009, 12:27 PM   #8
jj
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Default Re: Another New 12 String Mike

Quote:
Originally Posted by joveski View Post
isnt modal D tuning when the B-string is also dropped down an A? (DADGAD)
does anyone know of artists who commonly use open D tunings? (DADF#AD)

i remember the frustration of trying to learn guitar as a tyke ie. play along to some fave 60/70s pop hits by following Barry's fingering (and NON-fingering) but it sound very much like crap...decades later i found out he was using an open tuning, duh (which is still difficult unless you have a long, strong ring finger)

YouTube - Medley (Midnight Special, 1975)

i suppose richie valens, no?
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Old 05-20-2009, 12:52 PM   #9
charlene
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Default Re: Another New 12 String Mike

thanks for explaining the D tuning stuff. unfortunately I am completely clueless about any of it and totally in awe of all of the folks who understand the language of written music..
I am seriously jealous.
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Old 05-20-2009, 04:21 PM   #10
Bill
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Default Re: Another New 12 String Mike

I'm jealous! Wanting new guitar bad.

On Youtube: type in Bill Noel or OpenDGuitar for a group of tunes I wrote in D tuning (full D...DADF#AD)...some in C: CGCGCE
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Old 05-20-2009, 06:00 PM   #11
New 12 String Mike
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Default Re: Another New 12 String Mike

Didn't want to start any jealousy, I just didn't want to keep retuning a 12-string.

Char, you've gotten more guitar lessons today than I think you'd counted on! I should've said dropped D tuning. In case you ever wondered, the dropped D tuned 12 string being a separate guitar explains why you see Gord using two different 12s on stage during certain sets. One he tends to keep behind him. The other I've seen him place more to his right near Mike's keyboards. He called that one "his special guitar" at the Richmond show before he did EMR. You don't play the guitar all that differently, but you have to change a finger placement or two. As said above, it gives you a slightly different sound.

I don't know how many artists are using many different tunings on their guitars. I read last year that Jackson Browne did an acoustic tour a year or so ago and performed with a rack of guitars beside him on stage. He used many different tunings depending on the song. Must have been interesting to see.

Bill, sorry for the GAS attack. Let me know if you want more scoop on this Martin. Its very affordable.
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Old 05-20-2009, 06:20 PM   #12
charlene
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Default Re: Another New 12 String Mike

I had 'dropped' in my reply but deleted it.
so maybe i do know more than i think.
or i just have a good memory and know absolutely nothing..i'll go with the latter.
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Old 05-20-2009, 09:18 PM   #13
KHester
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Default Re: Another New 12 String Mike

I guess I'm learning about 12 string tuning... but I can't say that this info has had any effect on the way it sounds to me. I just love the sound of a 12 string.
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Old 05-20-2009, 10:05 PM   #14
joveski
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Default Re: Another New 12 String Mike

i think crosby stills & nash have a songs DADF#AD tuning
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Old 05-21-2009, 09:57 AM   #15
Bill
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Default Re: Another New 12 String Mike

Stephan Stills, Joni Mitchell and Richie Havens are well known for full D tuning, and the late John Fahey used it some. Kottke a little. As I recall it evolved in an early blues tradition.

And yes, Dropped D tuning is just lowering the big E string to D for songs like EMR.
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Old 05-22-2009, 11:18 AM   #16
jj
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Default Re: Another New 12 String Mike

continued thanks for the replies, interesting...bill, i never heard of the latter two and will check them out...it seems that Gibb was barre-hopping (did i make that up?) or clamping the neck using his ring finger whereas Havens using his powerful thumb whereas Joni uses her index finger (love this pic below...Crosby looking 'relaxed')...i may give one of those approaches a try at end of summer when my hand callouses are typically at their prime

i was think of an open piano tuning....what if i took all the white keys and altered them to either C E or G so one could slap away at the whites and be guaranteed to get some sort of interesting major chord inversion, then took the black ones and altered them to say, D, F, A or B (or perhaps Bb) so one could fiddle with 2nds 4ths 6th and major or dominant 7ths?....i could sell these and give quick lessons and have total amateurs sounding good in no time, lol

just joking, even though piano is un-capo friendly, it's kinda fun to transpose keys and get away from typical, stale 1-3-5 triad, white key, hand formations

joveski, i remember a friend playing suite judy blue eyes during a mini jam whereby he in advance had tuned his guitar to all E notes except for the B string....he called it a 'unison' E tuning....i tired it after he left and broke two strings, served me right for venturing into unchartered waters...i also remember my harmony attempt being dreadful

i've some old live Stills footage on vhs that i will check out

once again, wonderful pieces & playing, Bill...a real treat
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Old 05-22-2009, 12:22 PM   #17
Bill
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Default Re: Another New 12 String Mike

John Fahey passed away in recent years...took very poor care of himself. He play what he termed "American Primative Guitar"...fingerstyle and slide, open tunings, quirky melodies and disjointed content -- he was the prototype for (and guy who discovered) Leo Kottke, who is the MacDaddy of all fingerstyle guitar players. In an interview befor he died, Jimi Hendrix was asked what it was like to be the world's greatest guitarist and he replied,"I don't know -- you'd have to ask Leo Kottke". You can see both on Youtube.

AND KEEPING THIS THREAD HONEST TO GORD CONTENT: Leo started out with a Gibson B45 12 string just like Gord's!
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Old 05-23-2009, 08:35 AM   #18
bjm7777
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Default Re: Another New 12 String Mike

I first heard drop D tuning with Gord's music. Someone asked earlier in the thread about artists who use open D tuning or Modal D, and the band Firefall came to mind - Larry Burnett, who wrote "Cinderella" and "Sad Ol' Love Song" uses that kind of tuning. Or at least the article I read about them explained that....
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Old 06-03-2009, 07:44 PM   #19
teherie
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Default Re: Another New 12 String Mike

For those who are interested, I tune my 12 string down one whole step from standard tuning. You can then take a Kyser Capo and cover the top five strings at the second fret (which takes you back up to standard tuning on those five strings) and get the same effect as Dropped D Tuning on the sixth string.

Early Mornin' Rain
Canadian Railroad Trilogy
Is There Anyone Home
Wherefore and Why

Bitter Green (Really sounds great finger picking on a Martin 6 string dread)

From standard tuning, try Neil Young's "Old Laughing Lady" or the Doobie Brothers "Black Water" in Double Drop D (High and low E strings tuned down to D from standard tuning).
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Old 06-03-2009, 08:06 PM   #20
New 12 String Mike
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Default Re: Another New 12 String Mike

teherie,

I hadn't thought of playing dropped D like that. Interesting way to do it.

For me, I really needed a second guitar. Without it, I'd have more trouble relearning songs with new fingerings if I went back to standard on the same ax.

At least, I can stay halfway bobulated this way!
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Old 06-03-2009, 08:47 PM   #21
DawnsMinstrel
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Default Re: Another New 12 String Mike

Hi there. Just ran into this thread and noticed some discussion about dropped D and open D tunings. I thought I'd mention a few other artists I haven't seen mentioned here yet. There's a guy named Pierre Bensusan who is said by many to be the master of DADGAD. He is an amazing self-taught fingerstylist, heavily influenced by traditional Celtic music. Other guys who remind me of Fahey and Kottke are Bert Jansch (not sure I have the spelling right on the last name) and John Renbourne of Pentangle.

Another couple of guys I really like but who don't quite fit with those mentioned above, but who use a whole slew of alternate tunings - including many they invented themselves are Alex DeGrassi and the late great Michael Hedges. Of course I could go on but that'll keep you surfing YouTube all night already so I'll stop here.

I've got plans to post a video of me playing some DeGrassi. Hopefully soon. I'm working it up right now. By the way Bill, great compositions!
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