Mettler: There’s a great photo of you standing in the middle of a train track in the book Nicholas Jennings wrote about you called Lightfoot [published in 2017], with that perfect vanishing-point perspective behind you. Where was that picture taken?
Lightfoot: Oh, that would have been somewhere in North Toronto, in the yards where they assemble trains.
Mettler: The way you’ve arranged the tempo shifts in “Canadian Railroad Trilogy” has the song moves forward like we’re approaching and then going through a station.
Lightfoot: There was a very famous folk singer, Bob Gibson, who had that format in a song called “Civil War Trilogy” [on the 1961 Bob Gibson & Bob Camp album, At the Gate of Horn]. I followed that format, and he knew I was doing that. I knew Bob, and he was a great guy.
Mettler: Before I get into the more historical aspects of “The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald” [a No. 2 hit single from 1976’s Summertime Dream], I wanted to ask you about the echo on your lead vocal, which is something you don’t usually have. Was there a decision made to have that vocal sound differently than how you approached other songs?
Lightfoot: That was probably caused by the lead guitar part! (chuckles) The lead guitar part was reflecting itself on the lead vocal. It actually happened quite naturally.
Mettler: You’re known as quite an historically accurate songwriter, which boils down to the amount of research that you have to do to make sure you get all the detail down properly, and what you had to do to get the lyrics of a song like this one up to your standard.
Lightfoot: There was something not right with it the first day, so I actually had to rewrite it. I stayed up all night and rewrote it. We tried it again on the second day and got it right — right away, in the first hour.
But before I did that, I had to examine all the newspaper clippings that I could find to make sure it was accurate. Some of my guesswork wasn’t too far off. Some of it was guesswork and I knew that, and I was already thinking about the people who were going to hear the song at that point — the relatives and the families involved.
Mettler: Sure, and a couple of lines have changed over the years after you confirmed more factual information about what had happened.
Lightfoot: The thing about the hatch covers was always in doubt [“At 7 p.m., a main hatchway caved in”], so I changed it to “At 7 p.m., it grew dark, it was then he said, fellas” — and, of course, the next line comes from Woody Guthrie — “it’s been good to know ya.” [i.e., from the Guthrie song “So Long, It’s Been Good to Know Yuh,” from 1935’s Dust Bowl Ballads]. I always had that one — and I’m sure Woody wouldn’t mind.
Mettler: I think I can agree with that. It’s something you and your compatriot Bob Dylan also have in common — that throughline of being able to recall folk traditions as a songwriter that you can fit into a line or two in a song, and hope people discover it and feel compelled to go back into the history of it.
Lightfoot: Bob Dylan really got me interested in doing contemporary folk music. Right at the beginning, right when he had his first album [1962’s Bob Dylan] — that’s how I got interested in it.
Mettler: He’s called you “a mentor.” You two have had numerous interactions over the years, but how do you feel about someone like Bob Dylan calling you a mentor?
Lightfoot: Well, Bob Dylan was very kind to me. (chuckles) As I’ve said, he’s been very gracious and kind. He knows the magnitude of my fan appeal, and I’d also say he would be my all-time favorite. He and I found all that out when we were being managed by the same company [i.e., Albert Grossman] in New York over a period of years. I got to know Bob really well over that time because of it.
Mettler: Bob invited you to do the Rolling Thunder Revue in Toronto in December 1975.
Lightfoot: There was that, yes. There were other things we did too, but that’s the one that got the most notoriety.
Mettler: Right, and Bob also covered a key track of yours, “Early Morning Rain,” on Self Portrait [released in June 1970. “Early Morning Rain” was originally on Lightfoot’s 1966 debut album, Lightfoot!]
Lightfoot: He had the one, and one was good enough! We were into writing our own stuff, you know? That’s what he did, and that’s what I wanted too. Although I did record a Phil Ochs tune, “Changes” [on 1966’s Lightfoot!], and I also did “Me and Bobby McGee,” by Kris Kristofferson [on 1970’s Sit Down Young Stranger]. I think I was the first person to do that one, though I know Roger Miller also recorded it around the same time [in 1969, actually, when it hit the country charts].
Mettler: You guys were ahead of Janis Joplin at that point [who recorded the song in mid-1970, but was released posthumously on Pearl in January 1971]. In reverse, there are literally hundreds of artists who have recorded your songs. Why do you think your songs appeal to so many different artists?
Lightfoot: I don’t know, but it kept coming on that way! That went all the way up to Elvis. We had a chance to go down to Graceland about 5 years ago, and the people down there were telling me he was getting ready to do a couple more of my tunes when he died [on August 16, 1977]. He had already done two. [“Early Morning Rain” appears on 1972’s Elvis Now, and “(That’s What You Get) For Lovin’ Me” is on 1973’s Elvis.]
Mettler: I do have to say, one of my favorite covers was done by a fellow Gordon of yours — Gordon Downie and The Tragically Hip, who did a powerful version of “Black Day in July” on the 2003 album Beautiful: A Tribute to Gordon Lightfoot. [The original “Black Day in July” appears on 1968’s Did She Mention My Name?]
Lightfoot: Gordon did a great job singing that tune. He did a really good job on it. When I first heard it, I thought it was great. He really got into the heart of it, you know — as he would. He attacked it like Gord Downie would go after a tune.
Mettler: Do you happen to have a favorite song of his?
Lightfoot: I thought “Bobcaygeon” was rather great. [“Bobcaygeon” is on The Hip’s 1998 release Phantom Power, and it was named after a small town 100 miles northeast of Toronto.]
Mettler: Yeah, “Bobcaygeon” is a wonderful piece of work, I agree. And I always thought “Nautical Disaster” [from The Hip’s 1994 album Day for Night] had a bit of a tie into “Edmund Fitzgerald,” of course.
Lightfoot: Oh yeah, I think so too. I heard the album they did out in Seattle [2004’s In Between Evolution], and I thought it was a good album.
Mettler: I agree. Career work from a career artist we miss every day. [Downie passed away from brain cancer in 2017.] The last thing I want to ask you about is I understand your very first recording was a red platter 78 you recorded in 1948, “The Irish Lullaby.” You still own it, is that correct?
Lightfoot: Yeah, yeah, I did it in Grade 4. I’ve still got it.
Mettler: Do you even have anything you could play it on at all, like an old 78 player or something?
Lightfoot: I got it transferred over to cassette! (chuckles) It’s on cassette. One of these days, I’ll put it over onto a CD.
Mettler: Please do! A second box set might be in order. I’d love to hear stuff like that, literally 80 years later.
Lightfoot: Fortunately, there’s not too much of that stuff around, Mike! (both laugh)
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