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Sundreme · 01-26-2004, 06:16 AM

First of all, again I know the history of the mideast. You aren't telling me anything I have not heard. And I look at ALL the sources I can find, even those biased towards a point of view different than the one I might hold. Perhaps you should do the same. I for one, am not afraid to hear how the other side thinks. That's how one learns. As I said, I listen to arab newscasts, and I read Al Jazeera. There is precious little, if any condemnation of terrorism from them at all.
The middle east was colonized yes, so was America at one time. Many peoples were oppressed in this world, it doesnt give them the faintest exuse to go out and commit terrorism. BTW, do not assume that when I say "my people" I mean muslims or arabs. There are other people that came out of that region and "my people" were there long before anyone ever heard of Islam. "My people" were probably one of the most persecuted peoples on the planet, as were many other groups.
The difference is we dont commit terrorism and we dont use past oppressions as an excuse for it.
Again you are changing the argument. First you claimed that I or someone else said that all middle easterners or muslims were terrorists. I never said that and I don't think any one else did. Now you act as if you never claimed anyone said that.
I also pointed out that not all Islamic terrorism is based in middle east. It is a world wide phenomenon. That negates the already unfounded theory that Islamic fundamentalist terrorism is simply a biproduct of the poor, helpless peoples of that region.
The reason I said that not all muslims support terrorism is because, and I'll say it again slowly..."not ALL muslims support terrorism." However, I did say and I do stand by my statement that terrorism and the support for it runs deep through Islamic societies. Does that mean that the majority of muslims support terrorism? Maybe, maybe not. What I do know is that while Timothy McVeigh was villified by his society, Islamic terrorists are celebrated by theirs. What I do know is that the outcry and the protests eminating from muslim communities and individuals against the people and organizations that have commited terrorism has been well, shall we say, "underwhelming."
What I do know is if you condemn terrorism, you dont call the murderer a "martyr", you dont hang his poster on your walls ,celebrate his great deed by passing out candy and you don't congratulate his parents that their child is now a shaheed.
Erica

quote:Originally posted by violet Blue Horse:
Please, go get a few good unbiased history books and learn what the Colonizing British and the Americans did and have continued to do to "your people" for the last hundred or so years. Learn the history of the resentment anger and frustration of "your people". Don't you owe "your people" that much?

Yes, the majority of true terrorists in the world today are Islamic. It does not follow however, as some on this board have said " Islamic Terrorists is a current that runs through the main stream of many Islamic societies and the Muslims who condemn it appear to be the ones at their societies' fringes". Statistically speaking, the number of Islamic terrorists in this world are few compared to the number of Islamics in the world. The terrorists are the fringe, not the majoirty. I would guess, being generous to your hypothesis, that it's on the order of one in 800,000 considering what a huge percentage of the world is Islamic. Of course right before that statement you said "I'm not saying all Muslims believe this or support this" so it's really kind of hard to tell exactly what it is you believe isn't it?

So no, you did not say all islamics are terrorists. You did say that those islamics who condemn terrorist violence are few and the fringe however. Close though, eh?

Of course what's truly amazing is that I wasn't even talking to you when I made that post about prejudice. Funny though how you thought I was.

01-26-2004, 06:16 AM	#71
Sundreme Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Posts: 132	First of all, again I know the history of the mideast. You aren't telling me anything I have not heard. And I look at ALL the sources I can find, even those biased towards a point of view different than the one I might hold. Perhaps you should do the same. I for one, am not afraid to hear how the other side thinks. That's how one learns. As I said, I listen to arab newscasts, and I read Al Jazeera. There is precious little, if any condemnation of terrorism from them at all. The middle east was colonized yes, so was America at one time. Many peoples were oppressed in this world, it doesnt give them the faintest exuse to go out and commit terrorism. BTW, do not assume that when I say "my people" I mean muslims or arabs. There are other people that came out of that region and "my people" were there long before anyone ever heard of Islam. "My people" were probably one of the most persecuted peoples on the planet, as were many other groups. The difference is we dont commit terrorism and we dont use past oppressions as an excuse for it. Again you are changing the argument. First you claimed that I or someone else said that all middle easterners or muslims were terrorists. I never said that and I don't think any one else did. Now you act as if you never claimed anyone said that. I also pointed out that not all Islamic terrorism is based in middle east. It is a world wide phenomenon. That negates the already unfounded theory that Islamic fundamentalist terrorism is simply a biproduct of the poor, helpless peoples of that region. The reason I said that not all muslims support terrorism is because, and I'll say it again slowly..."not ALL muslims support terrorism." However, I did say and I do stand by my statement that terrorism and the support for it runs deep through Islamic societies. Does that mean that the majority of muslims support terrorism? Maybe, maybe not. What I do know is that while Timothy McVeigh was villified by his society, Islamic terrorists are celebrated by theirs. What I do know is that the outcry and the protests eminating from muslim communities and individuals against the people and organizations that have commited terrorism has been well, shall we say, "underwhelming." What I do know is if you condemn terrorism, you dont call the murderer a "martyr", you dont hang his poster on your walls ,celebrate his great deed by passing out candy and you don't congratulate his parents that their child is now a shaheed. Erica quote:Originally posted by violet Blue Horse: Please, go get a few good unbiased history books and learn what the Colonizing British and the Americans did and have continued to do to "your people" for the last hundred or so years. Learn the history of the resentment anger and frustration of "your people". Don't you owe "your people" that much? Yes, the majority of true terrorists in the world today are Islamic. It does not follow however, as some on this board have said " Islamic Terrorists is a current that runs through the main stream of many Islamic societies and the Muslims who condemn it appear to be the ones at their societies' fringes". Statistically speaking, the number of Islamic terrorists in this world are few compared to the number of Islamics in the world. The terrorists are the fringe, not the majoirty. I would guess, being generous to your hypothesis, that it's on the order of one in 800,000 considering what a huge percentage of the world is Islamic. Of course right before that statement you said "I'm not saying all Muslims believe this or support this" so it's really kind of hard to tell exactly what it is you believe isn't it? So no, you did not say all islamics are terrorists. You did say that those islamics who condemn terrorist violence are few and the fringe however. Close though, eh? Of course what's truly amazing is that I wasn't even talking to you when I made that post about prejudice. Funny though how you thought I was.