Hello, I was listening to Bob Dylan's Theme Time Radio Hour on Satellite radio, and he was telling about a feud between two Jamaican singers of ska music, and said that the fans got involved in the feud. It became so out of control that the Jamaican government had to step in, call a truce, and have the two Jamaican singers pose for a publicity photo. Bob said he had a similar thing with Gordon Lightfoot. I don't understand this. They have been fans of each other for years, so is Bob bringing up something that no one mentions too often? I know he has a tendancy to make up stuff, like he did years ago, saying he had no family and that he travelled with a carnival and things, but that was always about himself. If it wasn't true, why would he say something like that about himself involving Gord? Any thoughts or help?
Thanks a lot.
Matthew

IMO it sounds like a pretty clever joke. I mean it's like the kids say these days "AS IF", LOL.

Bill :)

i'm a big fan both and never heard anything about this... maybe bob's using his dry wit again.

during the rolling thunder days, bob accidentally set fire to curtains in gordon's house in 1975... maybe gord was pissed off for a bit. they were definately friends in 1986 when bob presented gord with the juno award. later bob was playing early morning rain in the late 80s/early 90s. and in 1998, bob playe i'm not supposed to care at a couple of his shows.

and since gord recorded ring them bells, i assume all's well

Id agree with that Joveski, me havin not heard anything of it either. :)

Yeah that's the trickster Bob peeking out, pulling legs - they are ardent admirers of each other's works but I can't say they're buddies (who is with Dylan?)

Having had a chance to watch the entire presentation of the Juno award to Lightfoot from Dylan, I found Dylan's arrogance and ego unbearable. He was late arriving on stage and less than flattering in his remarks. He's a "Me First" kinda guy.

Ron - I'd have to agree with you. I remember watching the show that night (and subsequently on video) and being absolutely mortified at Dylan's arrogance and attitude - I really was. It was most uncomfortable to watch. I think his demeanour lacked any respect for the award, the audience and most of all for Lightfoot himself. I was appalled. And I felt very bad for Gord to have to come out after Dylan had made such a buffoon of himself.
While Dylan showed all watching that he was all about Dylan, Lightfoot endeared himself with his humble words and graciousness giving sincere thanks for his talent, fame and fortune.
I dont' think I've ever seen or heard Dylan since that night without thinking of what a colossal arse he was. And conversely thinking that Lightfoot certainly could teach him a few things about decency.

But I'm pretty sure that on Nov.7 Lightfoot will be at Dylan's concert in Toronto!

[ October 15, 2006, 18:39: Message edited by: charlene ]

If Dylan really was a good artist, he wouldn't have to act like that. Gord already feels confident enough in his own ablities to know he doesn't have to act like that. Dylan however, feels unsecure about himself, so he tries to make up for it by acting like an a**hole.

I guess Lightfoot has his reasons, although I've never been wise enough to hear the "Dylan Influence" in Lightfoot's music.

As an aside, in a thread now long forgotten, I had wondered if GL had ever given credit to Lenny Waronker for part of his success. In his long list of thanks, Lightfoot does indeed mention Waronker.

I've always thought GL is way better that BD. No doubt about it!!

Bob Dylan is a cool Dude, but I do have the presentation he did for Lightfoot, on tape. And I have to agree with the majority here.

He was obnoxious, but got a laugh from the audience tho, when he said. " I know Gord has been offered this award before, but he chose not to accept it, because he wanted me to come and give it to him." :D

At least he said something there. At one concert I saw of him, he never said one word to the crowd, not even a thank-you.

There are still people today, that are waiting to hear what he's going to say next.

In the 60's, some people saw him as a prophet. Lot's of pressure on that guy.

So love him or hate him, Hey! there's only one; Bob Dylan. I like him. Im sure Gord does too...
:)

Yes and that "icon" stuff has always really bothered him, if you believe the Scorsese "American Masters" film that was broadcast earlier this year. Personally I think he's somewhat shy and puts on these personae as a way of doing the business he has to do, interacting with the public - emphasis on ACTING. Also explains when he sort of hermited himself away for long periods.

even at an important event for another performer he turns it into "all about bob" - even if said in jest it's sad...
So many other things he could have said - been gracious and complimentary to Lightfoot - nope - he was a boorish oaf and the whole damn event turned into talk about Dylan and him being an arse.

Didn't Dylan sing with JR Cash, "Girl From The North Country"? If that was him, he kind of sounded like his teeth were falling out. (My Granddad was a huge Cash fan; he once said he didn't care for Dylan either, but I think he didn't like his singing) :D

Bob probably acts like that because he's jealous of Gord, and he has every reason to be, IMHO. :)

Long time lurker, couldn't resist posting on this one. Have a tape of the Juno presentation. My observations are:

Dylan was drunk or stoned or both....bad Bob

Dylan canme north to do it for Gord..........how often do you see Dylan on award shows?..........good Bob

Gord was clearly touched and moved that Dylan was there...........that's what counts, it was his night

Discussion as to who is better.........I think is silly............the fact that they both love eachothers work speaks volumes.

that was 1986... if you see the Getting to dylan documentary, at one point he disappears from interview and reappears shortly with some white powder hanging out his nose. i wouldnt say he was snotty at those awards. he was just being his typical self. whatever his attitude that night, he's always great admiration for gord.

although he was very media-friendly at that time, its a kind jesture that he presented the award, personally, himself.

and FA, he did girl from the norh country, living the blues and I threw it all away on the johnny cash show in 1969

I can relate to the discomfort. Don't know how Canadian artists act around election time up there but down here our 'artists' like to tell their 'fans' (sheep?) how to vote, right from the stage of all places, LOL. Like someone said long before me SHUT UP AND SING ! I don't tell you how to tune your instrument, eh ? Like I care what some mega-rich stoner thinks about politics - AS IF ?

Bill :)

This has turned out to be a very interesting thread! I was surprised to read all this!
First off, I'm an old Dylan fan. When I say "fan" I mean I enjoy and appreciate the work the performer does. I don't idolize ANYONE, not ever Gord. We humans all have feet of clay so to speak. Obviously, Gord has a far more endearing personality, to put it mildly, than most other "celebrities" inclluding Bob. (please pardon my mispelled words, but I'm in a hurry a the moment.)
I have enjoyed the various comment on this... thanks, Y'all!
A little bit of Dylan Trivia... Johnny Cash appeared on Bob Dylan's Album "Nashville Skyline" (a Fav of mine!) They sang duo on "Girl from the North Country". I don't recall if any other ttacks were with Cash.

I forot to mention... welcome banjobench12. thanks for joining in.

I rarely post, but I could not help it. I have met Gord probably three or four time backstage. Each time he has mentioned some positive experiences he has had with Dylan.

Furthermore, Gord mentioned what an influence Dylan was on his own career. Dylan changed the music scene. Love him or hate him, without Dylan Gord would not be the same artist we have all grown to love.

By the way, I expect some bashing and look forward to it.

I think the fact that Dylan has covered and performed Lightfoot songs, complimented his work on many occasions and showed up for the Hall of Fame induction speaks volumes. I may be wrong, but Dylan has probably recorded/performed more GL songs than GL has covered Dylan. Now who's got more ego? (don't get me wrong--I'm a big fan of both--more GL)

The induction I thought was actually funny as opposed to disrespectful. It was probably more of a commentary on how stupid awards and award shows are than anything. Awards don't make GL great. It is simply the music.

Dylan might not be your cup of tea. GL might not be your cup of tea (and all 'a that zen) They don't have to justify a personal relationship or a mutual admiration to anyone...we're all on the sidelines.

hey Jaybour67,
I don't think you'll find any "bashing" here... just folks expressing an opinion.
If you be a die hard Dylan fan, you know how influential he has been. what I "think" shouldn't bother you much.
I think some GL fans are miffed at what Dylan said at that awards presentation... Most likely it was something that just didn't come out right when he said it, a mis-speak.
Celebs usually get essentric with all the fame and such, we come to expect it.
The Media can be very unkind to those who don't look and sound the way they think they should, so Bobs has gotten alot of nasty press in recent years... I've come to expect that too.

Ah yes......the ol' hypocrisy theory. So, can I assume that at the last awards ceremony that you had the opportunity to present at, you found yourself turning the spotlight on your unhypocritical self, and away from the recipient ?

[ October 25, 2006, 12:11: Message edited by: RMD ]

Ah yes......the ol' hypocrisy theory. So, can I assume that at the last awards ceremony that you had the opportunity to present at, you found yourself turning the spotlight on your unhypocritcal self, and away from the recipient ? [/QUOTE]That is weak.

People in this thread who have lambasted Dylan for his "supposed" disrespect towards Lightfoot at this ceremony, yet have gone above and beyond any level of disrespect that Bob may have had towards Lightfoot. Have even gone as far as calling Bob Dylan names such as a "Bafoon", an "arse" and he looks like "a flthy drunk". This is hypocrisy.

Ah yes......the ol' hypocrisy theory. So, can I assume that at the last awards ceremony that you had the opportunity to present at, you found yourself turning the spotlight on your unhypocritcal self, and away from the recipient ? [/QUOTE]That is weak.

People in this thread who have lambasted Dylan for his "supposed" disrespect towards Lightfoot at this ceremony, yet have gone above and beyond any level of disrespect that Bob may have had towards Lightfoot. Have even gone as far as calling Bob Dylan names such as a "Bafoon", an "arse" and he looks like "a flthy drunk". This is hypocrisy. [/QUOTE]Thank you for your strength. The opinions expressed that are critical of Dylan's behavior are genuine. There is nothing false about them....it is NOT hypocrisy.

[ October 25, 2006, 12:30: Message edited by: RMD ]

It's not my strength that you should be thankful for, but rather my insight. ;)

Although the opinions stated in this thread about Dylan are "genuine", they are not respectful. Dylans "lack of respect" towards Lightfoot is what has caused anger and disrespect towards Dylan.
People here have accused Dylan of disrespecting Lightfoot when they have never asked Dylan what his intentions were.

It's not the opinions about whether or not Dylan's actions were disrespectful that are hypocrisy, it's the NAME CALLING that is. Those who have called Bob Dylan names, some 20 YEARS after the fact, really show where their maturity level is at (refer back to my my idol is better than your idol comment).

People are upset about Dylan because they think he turned Lightfoot's award into an opportunity to put the spotlight on himself. Okay, to each his/her own. Again, it's the LEVEL OF DISRESPECT and NAME CALLING that is above and beyond anything that I ever heard Dylan say about Lightfoot.

These are two icons of their generation who have many times over, graciously complimented the other. Dylan about how when he hears Lightfoot sings he wishes he would never stop. And of course Lightfoot's admiration towards Dylan for teaching him how to write lyrics, the list goes on and on.

The thread starter asked a valid questions and others took advantage of it and turned it into an opportunity to accuse Dylan and call him names. Just stirring the pot and making trouble where there was none to begin with. Pretty sad on many levels, but not surprising. :( [/QUOTE]Fair enough. We may be dealing with semantics here.

I happen to like Dylan's music, but when I watch that Juno presentation, far worse words than buffoon, arse, and filthy drunkard cross my mind.

I've enjoyed the exchange of opinions.......keep stirring the pot.

they did a whole session together in 1969.... the following tracks:

Nashville 1969
source: Studio outtakes
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tracks:
One Too Many Mornings (#1)
One Too Many Mornings (#2)
Good Ol' Mountain Dew (Lunsford/Wiseman)
I Still Miss Someone (J Cash / Roy Cash)
Careless Love (Trad)
Matchbox (Carl Perkins)
That's Alright Mama (A. Crudup)
Big River (J Cash)
Girl Of The North Country
I Walk The Line (J Cash)
You Are My Sunshine (Davis / Mitchell)
Ring Of Fire (Carter / Kilgore)
Guess Things Happen That Way (Clement)
Just A Closer Walk With Thee (Trad)
Blues Yodel #1 (T for Texas) (J Rodgers)
Blues Yodel #2 (J Rodgers)
Johnny Cash Show:
I Threw It All Away
Living The Blues
Girl Of The North Country

Hmmm...I'm also a fan of both gentlemen. I've seen the Juno award ceremony under discussion here only once (maybe I should take a second look. Anybody got a link?) and I don't recall being appalled by BDs oratory. I don't recall being impressed either. Who knows what was going on there? Bob's not famous for his public speaking eloquence.

Gord's not known for his public speaking eloquence either but he was endearingly humble and charming and gracious while being extremely nervous.....IMHO.
http://archives.cbc.ca/IDC-1-68-743-...ightfoot/clip6

Gord's voice wasn't shaking and it was very steady. No noticable sweat and his hands were steady too. If he was extremely nervous, he sure knows how to hide it well. :) I actually thought he looked rather confident. Most people who don't normally do public speaking will start out a little nervous but as they get going, really start to relax and have fun. I think this was the case with Lightfoot on this night.

Also think that Dylan was funny. I take him as just another confident celebrity who's not afraid to do his own thing. He said some kinds words about Lightfoot and even invited Gordon somewhere right before Lightfoot started to talk. Still, I see not a thing wrong with anything Dylan said or did. He actually seemed like he was in a good mood and enjoying the occasion!

My favorite parts are when Lightfoot thanks his mom for "getting me into this crazy business in the first place" and then kind of does this thing with his head, nobody laughed but him and then said "o-o-o-kay".

The second is when he talks about Cathy Coonley and his son who is younger, "quite a bit younger I might ad" and then looks up, raises his eyebrows and says "well, whatever." Never knew what happened down below but it was funny nonetheless.

I don't see where Bob was disrespectful. If anything, he seemed a bit unrehearsed, kind of making the intro up on the fly. I think, if the truth were known, as famous as both guys are, they both still get nervous when they're in front of the camera.

Amen, Cathy, Amen!
All this does make me want to check out the full version of the ceremony all the more.

I'm not a particular fan of Dylan but wasn't he one of the first to call when Gord got sick last time?

Well, since your the one who made the comment about Dylan looking like a filthy drunk, you take much of the "sting" out of my posts. Thank you!

Anyway, thank you for cleaning up your posts in this thread. Much appreciated, timetraveler. :)

Thanks timetraveler. You've come a long way with your manners from your first post in this thread til now. Keep up the good work! :)

Time for a group hug!!!
lol!! a little bit of levity here!

Time for a group hug!!!
lol!! a little bit of levity here!

RMD - thinking of Waronker and working with Gordon, I was in Border's bookstore the other day and looked at a Rolling Stone Encyclopedia of Rock.

Naturally, I looked up Lightfoot. I read of many fascinating things it had to say that I've never ran across elsewhere.

One such noteable ort written of Waronker was that he was alleged to have said that particularly during the '70 - '74 time period, he had two principle "cash cows" in his money-making stable....... Gordon, and James Taylor.

This of course, being written word, and therefor intrinsically suspect unless verified as third to nth-hand information, we take with a grain of salt.

Out of context, it makes Waronker sound like a lamb-slaughtering sycophant kneeling before the graven image of imaginary "&if music = Lightfoot or JT &then &goto &routine I'mrich! &else &then &goto &routine whatnow?" gods.

Read in context, it sounds like he acted as a likely very greatful and symbiotically beneficial colleague and collaborator of Gordon's..... truthfully admitting the financially ballooning sales since IYCRMM as a mutual windfall.

This then read as projecting as geometrically growing sales from there, which peaked as I read from IYCRMM as the big bang relative beginning, expanding to the profitable universe to come of Sundown and finally TWOTEF. And glad of it, and greatful for the mutual benefit and collaboration.

This of course is of no real news to any ardent fan of Gord's, but was a unique and interesting read over in Border's "Java WI-FI Cafe" try before you buy book-reading area.

Of course, the list was much longer, but GL and JT were purported to be his first response upon inquiry of who his big money-makers were.

You know, it makes my cheeks draw back on my face to think of someone relegating Lightfoot's incredible artistry flipantly and disrespectfully to that of a cold, hard cash-money maker to Waronker.

I am not encumbered by so much naivete that I think that professional contracts with recording artists are not viewed as business, and profit and loss columns.

One need only pause and consider the name of one of two major recording artists chart positions yardsticks i.e. "cashbox" to be reminded of that. That's life in the big city.

Conversely, I'm also respectful of the struggling young singer/songwriter's plight to make a living and even eat as they build their early career stages.

Money is not a dirty word IMHO, only the sad focus it can be so often in lieu of what earns it - hard work, talent, sweat, and genuine gifted artistry in Gord's case when he was first enjoying the first glimpse of burgeoning stardom, and being able to pay his bills just like us.

But I fondly recall early accounts of his humble way of carrying one worn leather suitcase, with two pair of pants and two shirts; one for each set. This may be a romanticized tale, but it's worth believing; and in keeping with his ubiquitous examples of humility.

I've read as I believe we all have of Gord's strong appreciation of Waronker's great job he did in Gord's genuine best interest. I also do not feel Machiavellian about real world business.

Especially, there are major redeeming factors- as in the reality that Waronker did in fact by common report, and Gord's own admission, play a key role in building his career during what perhaps GL has thought of as his "prime" in retrospect; e.g. "A Painter Passing Through"'s lyrics.

In his on again and off again admirable self-deprecating way, lest he be thought of as arrogant.

Another lazy morning; Mr. Hoot and Holler; Gotta Make a Dollar - facts of a life. I only wish we were ALL blessed with similar magnificent gifts of genius such as Gord's in our own ken, or area of talent, hobby, work, or gift to others.

To embrace such a talent that must give pause even to Gord himself in quiet moments of soul-stirring introspection, where one can only hope he is able to quite literally think and dream out loud in his mesmerizing style of woven prose and melody that reminds us to stop and smell the roses, and give thanks for our unique individual talents.

If I were as good a map-maker and geodetic surveyor as Gordon is a song-smith and performer; I'd someday be known as another Leroy Talman; Galileo,Ptolemy,Euler, Fremont, Hayden, Powell, or any number of far greater talents than my own.

I'd feel blessed even more so in so many aspects of my life, based upon not that of rarified talent of the magnitude Gordon posesses ......but rather that of what I sincerely hope at this stage of his legendary career and iconic status.....

-That he can truly bask in the well-earned alpenglow of a man humbly realizing that indeed, he has more than made his mark, and earned the respect of his peers and fans crossing in excess of three generations to date, and likely permanent acknowledgement and enjoyment of his life's work for perpetuity.

I hope he really DOES know how just how good he IS, not just WAS when I hear him sing of when he was in "his prime" and there came Mr. Cool).

To me, and I know most of you, he always will be a legend, a symbol of everything wonderfully Canadian, and a permanently recognized major composer of magnificent music.

I think of Lake Louise in Banff, The Valley of Ten Peaks in B.C. (as I recall from young camping trips with my dear departed father..), and on to the manificent Jasper Athabasca Glacier trekking area, deep green forests to silent to be real....canoeing and kayaking Northern Territories sub-arctic waters for powerful 800-mile trips, whispers of the North, geese flying south as the leaves turn to gold when the weather turns to cold.

.... and a great man I admire enjoying the view more and more from the warmth of a place he can call home... and see from his backyard. And a man who has helped me to remember my Dad as indeed with the scrimshaw that he had....

But for now, that Restless yearning that still calls him to CareFree Highways (OK a Learjet now LOL..), and his perpetual quest (for which there is an answer) to give and give and give, and dig for one more guitar pick out of his pocket while sheepishly grinning at an adoring audience....

The Living Legend continues as a testament to strength, character, humility, life's lessons already learned, and his God-given gift to bring us peace and warmth in our heart in what all too often seems a cold world.... until we reminded once again, by the Man.

Long live Gordon Lightfoot and his Legacy, may the boat Silverheel fall into the right British Lady's hands, and may we all glide glide glide all day listening in our minds to whispers of the North, all things beautiful, and sunlight hitting handles on heirloom cups, so that the next generation can continue his Legacy.

And someday, when he finds the answer to his quest, and no longer needs to shout across the shore, with a rusty sword in hand, and finally feels no pain by the grace of his love for us all and his dear family...then someday, not too soon, he will pass on, with his boots on, axe in hand, and finds his home made of stone, and the homefires keep on burning and yearning for him; one of two men I will admire for all my days on this earth the most - my father, and Gordon Lightfoot.

God Bless him and all he has given us. May he continue playing right on into the sky when his time someday comes, and finally come to rest, with his Eagle in her nest, in the trees, in the arboreal splendor he will always paint for us in word and melody, by the Long River that flows right by our own window, thanks to Gordon.

Well, that may have only tied in on Lenny Waronker to start, but that is what came out this morning, after listening to Gord on the CD on the very careful Highway home from visiting my wife, soon to be out of the hospital per se, at least...and once again I was comforted by Gord's music on the drive home while she gets better.

Hey friends I am sorry for this long, long post, but I hope you could feel some of what I felt this morning listening to Gord at sunrise.

May all of you enjoy peace and companionship in corfid today... and Gord's music as a backdrop for real life as it goes on for you today. Have a good day all friends. I am tired, and this all just poured out like the whiskey of the Highlands..... thanks for bearing with the long read if you did. Peace to you all, later....

:) :) geo Steve

geo steve,

To be honest, I was unable to tell where your opinion of Waronker landed. A Steve Kururtz expressed this thought in All Music Guide :

"And with his creative leanings and production credits Waronker became known as an ally for artists at a time when the industry was being bombarded by "corporate suits" who knew little and cared less about rock music. Yet, Waronker's dedication to the artists and his reputation for discussing music over business led Warner Brothers and its subsidiaries such as Reprise to be viewed as a positive family atmosphere where music, not money, was still number one."