Re: Bob Dylan-"I'm Not Supposed to Care"
 

I love Dylan's "Hurricane" spectacular.

Re: Bob Dylan-"I'm Not Supposed to Care"
 

I agree with you on that one, Brink. Hurricane's a great song.

Cathy

Re: Bob Dylan-"I'm Not Supposed to Care"
 

I think he just meant he heavily "influenced" him, probably more than anyone else ...you know, regarding song structure, word play, license, etc ...but who knows what went on during any overlapping time in the Grossman office ...I'd be surprised if either can remember much, lol

I didn't realize Bob was nervous on TV...he must be on stage also cos he didn't even say boo to our Massey audience when I saw him ...you'd think with all that experience, he'd not be intimidated, even a ham:)


>ok, another Songbook quote from Gord (do we not all know these?)

STATION MASTER
It has a very strong Bob Dylan undercurrent. He's been a very big influence on me throughout my career, and this song is about as close as I get to showing it.


post edit:

from the wonderful Lightfoot Odds and Ends section at www.Lightfoot.ca I see a few more Dylan related tidbits...my question is "where is this film footage? ie. ever released?"


"When Lightfoot played two shows on Bob Dylan's Rolling Thunder Revue in1975 in Toronto, Dylan dedicated 'Dark As A Dungeon', an old folk standard Lightfoot used to perform, to Lightfoot at the first night's concert."

"After the first night's Rolling Thunder Revue concert in Toronto in 1975, Lightfoot invited the entire revue back to his house for a post-concert party. Dylan, who was making a film at the time, recorded Lightfoot singing 'Ballad In Plain D' in an upstairs bedroom."

Re: Bob Dylan-"I'm Not Supposed to Care"
 

That motorcycle accident - which there is no evidence ever actually happened other than Dylan's saying so - happened in July 1966, three years before Lay Lady Lay. The voice he used on Nashville Skyline was just an affectation.

Re: Bob Dylan-"I'm Not Supposed to Care"
 

CYANEYES , No kidding ? You know, to non-Dylan fans, that is a widely-held belief I recall as an urban legend of sorts when i was a teenager and young man - that of Dylan's voice changing after his alleged motcycle accident, from Lay-Lady-Lay.

I have to say - I liked that song, and found the voice- for Dylan or not, pleasing. So it was an affectation ? I can hear my wife typing at home to a psychologist's recorded voice notes for medical transcription our home-business at the time, where he (the psych she typed for, or LCSW etc)always started out on each patient, who had had a head injury most typically, he would say "This patient presents with a broad and bright affect, oriented times 3". I have a better feel now for what he may have meant by that. Thanks for the revelation.

As you seem a Dylan afficianado, who wrote and sometimes recorded the almost archetypal folk songs of the era , many of which I think Dylan wrote but did not sing, if memory serves, the voices I recall on *some* sound like Peter, Paul, and Mary, singing "If I Had a Hammer" , and either them, or the Kingston Trio singing , Dylan's again , I believe ("The answer is")"Blowin'In the Wind" ? I realize this is folk 101 I should know, but I have always been Lightfoot-centric on my folk tastes, albeit widely varied on other genres.

Your educating me here on this would be of actual historical value to my knowledge base ( or lack therof) out of respect to Dylan's part in the whole history of Folk. And is it true to say, as I have heard, in part or in full, the subjective comment "There would be no Dylan if there had been no Ramblin' Jack Elliot, and Woody Guthrie before that" - in ostensibly the "true" origins of folk, in the modern sense.

Its my understanding that folk, as a broad subject, is not a time period defined by certain people, but rather the genre in any culture/any time period that deals primarily with the homespun, layman's (versus professional songwriter) songs about that region, country, time period, culture, colloquial expressionism of commonly, the means of local labour, its dangers, the geographic and locals' names of local features, i.e. "The White Cliffs of Dover", and The Ash Grove", "Greensleeves" - which I know transcends genre from Christmas tune to folk heritage song etc. , and one more iconic song "Dirty Old Town".

A very nice album that encompasses a great selection of such representative classics of at least a celtic, if not just Anglo-Saxon suite of pleasant "Folk Songs Of Our Time" - by Roger Whittaker, of "The Last Farewell" notoriety, released in around 1978 or so. These songs were recorded by him before he seemed to get rather histrionic in dramatic presentation of singing in concert, where he'd later in his career get dressed-up in song-specific (Send In the Clowns....hoo by lol) get-ups that needlessly distracted from his magnificent voice in the mid - late 70's.

I've seen that youtube and Stonewall's vistory team are fond of many of these oft-recorded in the 60's somewhat white-washed ( no humour intended at all) collections of folk that sadly do not reflect what I believe to be be vastly important *historically imperative to chronicle" cultural fok songs , of which I believe folks original roots are firmly seated in , in any given culture or "under-class" - socio-economically, or by virtue of sad songs of indentured servitude.

Like slavery, such powerful, richly heartfelt cried-out for justice-type songs that when covered by some mid-to late 60's W.A.S.P. (no derogatory slang meant or implied) harmonius folk groups, lose something culturally and historically of a struggling people, or subset of a regional or time-period based working people or slave-state, when hardship-driven modes of thought arguably created our most important folk music?

As a well-informed sounding folk fan, I am curious of your take on the Dylan Q's, and the general folk-genre Q's of origins, and what may render Dylan-centric thoughts of folk origins to be academic. Or, more fairly, accurately place him in his admittedly important role in the modern progression of folk. I know little of this, so any thoughts at all are appreciated.

~geo steve

Re: Bob Dylan-"I'm Not Supposed to Care"
 

Regarding Dylan's voice on Nashville Skyline: it was sort of a 'country' album by the standards of 1969 and I always thought when it came out that he was just using his 'country' voice - sort of like I slip into when I visit folks in South Carolina. Johnny Cash, who I think knew a thing or two about music and songwriting, had this to say at the time in a little poem he wrote.

"Of Bob Dylan"

There are those who do not imitate,
Who cannot imitate
But then there are those who emulate
At times, to expand further the light
Of an original glow.
Knowing that to imitate the living
Is mockery
And to imitate the dead
Is robbery
There are those
Who are beings complete unto themselves
Whole, undaunted,-a source
As leaves of grass, as stars
As mountains, alike, alike, alike,
Yet unalike
Each is complete and contained
And as each unalike star shines
Each ray of light is forever gone
To leave way for a new ray
And a new ray, as from a fountain
Complete unto itself, full, flowing
So are some souls like stars
And their words, works and songs
Like strong, quick flashes of light

From a brilliant, erupting cone.
So where are your mountains
To match some men?

This man can rhyme the tick of time
The edge of pain, the what of sane
And comprehend the good in men, the bad in men
Can feel the hate of fight, the love of right
And the creep of blight at the speed of light
The pain of dawn, the gone of gone
The end of friend, the end of end
By math of trend
What grip to hold what he is told
How long to hold, how strong to hold
How much to hold of what is told.
And Know
The yield of rend; the break of bend
The scar of mend
I'm proud to say that I know it,
Here-in is a hell of a poet.
And lots of other things
And lots of other things.
-- Johnny Cash

Bill :)

Re: Bob Dylan-"I'm Not Supposed to Care"
 

BILLW : WOW ! I had no idea what a poet-laureate Johhny really was... my wife's favourite...was Johny Cash, secondly, Gordon Lightfoot, and now I know why, among other things , she liked Johnny Cash so much - his lyrics are indeed powerful, and articulate - as was his voice - powerful. No the image I had in my mind of out-dated norms of country-music, where I have heard repeatedly that THAT is where the lyrics are lately in NEW music.

This, of course, excepting Gordon, I should say rather not acknowledging Lightfoot, who among non-Lightfoot fans, are hardly aware of his newest releases outside of the Lighthead following, imho. I gauge this from the reaction I sadly endure when I go to Best Buy, - a good local source for CD's, and the sales-kid says "Gordon WHO?" - we've all discussed this, but my point is I simply have more respect, growing dayly, for Country music - lyrics especially.

My only categorical distaste for Country is going away as well - that of the "twangy" sound, real or affected (not e-ffected) that typified so many (& many not at all) country artists in the 60's and maybe the 70's.

But even I saying that, I realize I bought cross-over country in the 70's when I bought Alabama, Don,,,,dangit,, ( he sang I believe in you) =WILLIAMS thats it... and many other cross-over country artists. Just goes to show, as usual, the roots of prejudice are indeed by definition- prejudging, something/someone that we are not well-informed of eg ignorant of, or fear, also being a hallmark of prejudice.... i catch myself fully, brakes on ABS stop, of forever discarding any pre-concieved notions I had about country.

I also like the new "John David Carrol" - I think his name is, who sings in a great video ....like I said..like I SAID..."I Can Sleep When I'm Dead" . He was the son of a preacher, who was not allowed to sing secular music in the home. He left home at 18, went to college, got a degree in a liberal art I think, and started recording with a bass voice that I thought got buried in time with my father, and Johhny Cash. All my mis-conceptions of country are dissolving, and not just in lip-service... I find myself listening to satellite-TV contemporary Country channels and enjoying much of what I hear.

on -thread - Dylans affectation of voice per Cyaneyes, I believe, on Lay-Lady-Lay, I am curious to hear a reply on that post, page 2 this thread. The voice I thought was pre-motorcycle crash. Not so I hear.

Yes BillW, Cash's poetry/lyrics are indeed Powerful , and I am given to thinking of my wife's favourite in a new light......fueling the very necessary and ultimately beneficial grieving process as I think of her in that regard -"Now I know WHY she spoke so highly of Cash".

I think of popular but fun generic folk, (yes ?) of the 60's with one of the songs in my myspace playlist - Jimmy Dean singing "Big John" or "Big Bad John"
"he was about 245, kind a wide at the shoulder and narrow at the hip"
"and everybody knew you didn't give no lip to big John" - great song - is that homogenized 60's country ? or folk ? I like it - just as I do the pop folk std's of Dylan's - "Blowin in the Wind" and "If I had a Hammer" - early stuff I think in a way was more powerful to the masses, notably of people ignorant of Dylan's whole body of work , as I am , and have demonstrated. But open-minded, I am learning more and more....about Dylan, and Cash.

I gotta say the MOST powerful set of folk lyrics IMHO IS indeed a slave-originated ( I think) song that Joan Baez did in concert - hard to find - and I am looking for it again lately - ''Ain't gonna let nobody...turn me around...turn me around"......repeat refrain.....then.. "gonna build a brand new world."
Those - are powerful words - and I know not of Joan's origin, but to me is an example of the page 2 this thread long post I wrote on the cultural under-class strife - as in this song which I believe to be of slave origin from my "Mudcat" lyrics website reading.

And of cultural significance of a struggling people, just now getting their ground-legs in most parts - not all - of the country - in equal regard in the workplace , etc., though I know the strong argument to the contrary of that, by many African-American's (and other blacks, many of whom carry my last name, moreso than "white" people, and many from celtic Anglo Scotland...where my last name is from .....interesting)..........

BTW in my playlist - "Big John" - is misnamed in the URL to myspace's built in source of 2300 -odd songs I drew from , sadly only 23 were of Gordon's, I must add other URL sources to Gord, and Johhny, and Dylan, instead of what playlist's source had a plethora of - Sinatra - who I like - but not 2/3 of my 100 song playlist worth !

~geo Steve

Re: Bob Dylan-"I'm Not Supposed to Care"
 

Pete Seeger and Lee Hays wrote "If I Had A Hammer".

Re: Bob Dylan-"I'm Not Supposed to Care"
 

Great thread, no ? Why ? Not sure - but I like it, LOL. It was around the time of Nashville Skyline when I realized that all these guys really liked each other and partied together. Hippies ? Rednecks ? At the same party ? Wow did it open my eyes to the real ties that bind and that we were ALL in this together. And once I heard The New Riders Of The Purple Sage doing Merle Haggard tunes I went on a 'bender' (do they still use that word ?) that lasted about 3 weeks.

Sorry too much info there but what great memories you guys stir up. You gotta love the corfid family even when we veer off and back on topic sort of like an amusemnet park ride.

Thanks for cheering me up - rough day at the Farm today - LOL.

Bill :)

Re: Bob Dylan-"I'm Not Supposed to Care"
 

cluck cluck cluck bill

Re: Bob Dylan-"I'm Not Supposed to Care"
 

Dylan was asked many years ago by an interviewer why his voice was so clear and rich on the "Nashville Skyline" album. Dylan laughed at the question and said " the answer is simple - I quit smoking for six months. You quit smoking, you can sing like Caruso!" Wish I could footnote this for authentication but I cannot recall where I read this about Dylan...

Re: Bob Dylan-"I'm Not Supposed to Care"
 

that was the 1978 Playboy interview when he said that..

Re: Bob Dylan-"I'm Not Supposed to Care"
 

Thanks Joveski. Guess that speaks volumes about my choice of reading material! lol :)
In my defense, I was a very young man in 1978 and I'm sure I bought that issue of Playboy specifically to read the interview with Dylan. ;)

Re: Bob Dylan-"I'm Not Supposed to Care"
 

of course!. its always for the articles!

Re: Bob Dylan-"I'm Not Supposed to Care"
 

Thought I might add my 2 cents:


The depths of brotherhood that they share
Cannot be broken by those that compare
Them to one another without even a care.
What is forever? And will you be there?

Re: Bob Dylan-"I'm Not Supposed to Care"
 

And I would add this Lightfoot excerpt from "The Soul is the Rock":

The soul is the rock and the rock will always roll
In circles 'round the sun doing rings around the pole
When the mind is not sure what the heart will do next
The rock becomes the master and the road becomes what's left

and...

The soul is the rock and the rock will not be harmed
Though man must be cheated just as woman must be charmed
And the mind is the light for the heart which cannot see
The soul becomes the stranger but the rock will always be

Lyrics and their poetic, important context when done by thought provoking artists like Gord, Johnny, and Dylan, all carry some not-often heard closely but very poignant, soul-stirring thoughts..... it is well worth listeingin closely to our singing songwriter's actual words isnt't it ? They stand alone as sage advice often, moreso than just poetry and prose....

I'lll hand it to Dylan and really, all 3, their word are powerful, and do carry, as Podunklander said - the powerful tradition of the regional folk culture to the next generations in the form of lyrics in "popular folk" - and so it carries on...

I agree Podunklander......point well made. I am sure we could find prose from all 3 that would stagger the picture whe might have had of the artist prior.

Different facets of the same person, they seem to be. Some, more rough-cut than others, but nevertheless gem facets all the same.

~geo steve

Re: Bob Dylan-"I'm Not Supposed to Care"
 

Hey ~geo steve, those lyrics you mentioned in post #52 - here they are. (Tried posting them a couple times before, but still trying. lol Couldn't get your paragraph from your quote right.) Pretty cool song. I used to sing along to some of her songs on an album I still have of hers called "Farewell, Angelina" I especially liked Satisfied Mind.

Joan Baez - (ain't gonna let nobody) turn me around Lyrics
Album: From Every Stage



Ain't gonna let noboby turn me around...
turn me around...
turn me around...
Ain't gonna let noboby turn me around...
Keep on a-walkin'
Keep on a-talkin'
Gonna build a brand new world.

Ain't gonna let the administration turn me around...
turn me around...
turn me around...
Ain't gonna let the administration turn me around...
Keep on a-walkin'
Keep on a-talkin'
Gonna build a brand new world.

Ain't gonna let no first-strike policy turn me around...
turn me around...
turn me around...
Ain't gonna let no first-strike policy turn me around...
Keep on a-walkin'
Keep on a-talkin'
Gonna build a brand new world.

Ain't gonna let Indira Ghandi turn me around...
turn me around...
turn me around...
Ain't gonna let Indira (how'd she get that name?) 'round...
Keep on a-walkin'
Keep on a-talkin'
Gonna build a brand new world.

Ain't gonna let that Henry Kissenger turn me around...
turn me around...
turn me around...
Ain't gonna let that killer Kissenger turn me around...
Keep on a-walkin'
Keep on a-talkin'
Gonna build a brand new world.

Ain't gonna let nobody turn me around...
turn me around...
turn me around...
Ain't gonna let nobody turn me around...
Keep on a-swingin'
Keep on a-singin'
Gonna build a brand new world.

Re: Bob Dylan-"I'm Not Supposed to Care"
 

Re: Bob Dylan-"I'm Not Supposed to Care"
 

I'm not inviting negative comments-just posting a new version for those of us who appreciate the genius of both Lightfoot & Dylan:

Re: Bob Dylan-"I'm Not Supposed to Care"
 

You know, whatever one may think of Dylan's singing these days, the fact that - with his own enormous catalog of brilliant songs - he still chooses to cover a Gord song is a huge compliment to Gord. We should all appreciate that, even if we don't happen to like Dylan's vocals ... And, at least he played guitar, which is more than he is doing this tour. But I enjoyed the concert (and the experience) anyway!