Ribbon Of Darkness by: Maerty Robbins

[Jesse Joe]

Marty Robbins / Ribbon Of Darkness


YouTube - Marty Robbins - Ribbon of Darkness

[talbot10]

Wonderful! thanks Jesse
Bill

[Jesse Joe]

Hi Bill,

It's been a while, Marty Robbins did have one great voice. Glad you enjoyed that video. :)

[vlmagee]

Way back when, I had a "compilation" cassette tape with Lightfoot cover songs and Lightfoot's own recording on the same tape. Other covers on that tape included the PP&M recordings, for example.

Anyhow, somehow I discovered Marty Robbins' cover very early on; probably because I noticed him when El Paso was a hit on the radio. I bought the album with ROD and I always loved Marty's comments on the album jacket (paraphrased): "It is recorded in Marty Robbins' voice, but Gordon Lightfoot's style".

And, as I'm sure many of you know, it was a #1 Country & Western hit for Marty Robbins, reaching that position in April, 1965.

Thanks for finding this video!

[seahawk11]

Yes, I like Marty too. A wonderful singer/songwriter in his own right. But, this song really makes me think about how great Gord's talent is. Going back to the WB demos, there are many songs on there where you can say, "Wow, that's a really good Hank Williams song"...or, "Wow, that's a really good Johnny Cash song". I wonder about Gord sometimes: was he really just deeply influenced by these types of songs growing up, or is his talent so great that he can just sit down and write (for example) a Marty Robbins type song at will (Ribbon of Darkness, Miguel)? I sometimes suspect the latter is true, but I don't know.

[Jesse Joe]

YouTube - Marty Robbins - Ribbon Of Darkness

[The Rez]

*Influence* runs both ways in any Creative Art - particularly in formative years. Truth be told, it runs every-which-way. It ain't stricly Linear.

There is indeed a *Lineage* [The Begats, if you will] in Music History, but everyone borrowed from everyone else Were you to attempt a diagram, it would contain more intersecting confusion than an *Inside the DC Belway Political Roadmap*

That's my opinion why The Hive - this massive collective I call The Music - holds so many hues and catagories and sub-hues and sub-catagores, and so on. Many of the catagories use so many hypenates, there should be Most-Hyphenated-Music-Style sub-catagory.

In the midst of what appears to be chaos [but isn't] emerge certain people who defy *The Box* critics and consumers try to stuff 'em in. Such is Gord. Same-same Ol' Marty Robbins, in his fashion. In each you see both the *Spark* and the sheer *Craftsmanship* to harness Energy.

Wanna hear the best GordSong ever written by Mary Robbins?

*The Alamo*

For me, it's not the singer's vibrato, the band's instrumentation or Ballad Form
[in it's story narritive meaning] . . . it's The Passion.

I see it shivver in *The Last Time I Saw Her Face* and *My Woman, My Woman,
My Wife* [subject irrelavant]

Who Influenced Who More? No Brainer . . . EACH.


Now what was the name of that Sawyer Brown record that sounded just like a GordSong?

Rez

[podunklander]

Sometimes it may be "influence", probably moreso it's "inspiration". And yet other times there may be actual borrowing and sharing. I hear very little of "others" in Gord's own music/lyrics. Having given this thought at some point in the past...I believe I picked out some "Masonry" and "CSNashness" (pardon me, I like to make up words for stuff like this). But if I recall correctly, this was something I noted in a few guitar riffs only.

Seahawk, I would think that some of what Gord did back then would have to have been influenced by the music of the times, and what would be needed for a song to be a commerical success. Whether it be he as the singer or not. And there's some songs that need to have "danceability", etc., too in order be considered commerical.

Gordon's formula for deep, sad lyrics along with an upbeat tempo is phenomenal. And we see this in songs like Ribbon of Darkness. That's what all the smiles and clapping going on are about. And of course, a well-executed performance of the song.

Sad lyrics and an upbeat tempo...the lyrics giving way to even a margin of hope. Even without the upbeat tempo in the music, a wonderful, powerful voice can carry this. Something more along the lines of Roy Orbison, who could make the saddest song leave one feeling upbeat and with a ray of hope. Gordon I believe is able to do all of this - the tempo, lyrics, voice, etc.

Because of Gordon's unique talent, genius etc., there's bound to be more "Gordage" (there I go again) in the work of others. Many great storyteller/songwriters also credit Woody Guthrie for showing them the way. Bob Dylan for sure! He researched/studied, imitated and emulated Guthrie. The work of Dylan, Lightfoot et. al., can be considered a "tradition".

Ok just some rambling thoughts to add to an interesting topic!

[timetraveler]

All I can say is that, until recently, I'd never known that the song was a Lightfoot tune. To think that I've been hearing his music, in one way or other, and didn't even know it. Hmmm!:)

[The Rez]

Hey Podunklander,

May I please begin by saying: I'm right in step w/ you. Much Agree.

Re "Influence" v. "Inspiration"

Yes, I definitely chose the wrong word. "Inspiration" is much more "organic" Often folks use 'em interchangeably [as I wrongly did] but - "Inspiration" is The Thing musicians borrow along the path of finding their own singlular voice.

Among those who emerge, "inspiration" takes the form of "imitation" only in those very formative times [ala Brother Ray doin' Nat Cole before he found Brother Ray] That happens w/ *every* musician. No one - not even Gord - begins as An Original, uninspired [or influenced] by the sound surrounding them. That takes time in the Cookin' Pot.

[When the "insipiration" remains "imitation" ya' got yerself a Vegas Lounge Lizard. Course, they're never outta work - like those w/ vision.]

Folk and Blues are where you'll find The Story [The Ballad] Those styles [and when they meet] have always embraced a good yarn - be it in a minor key [Miguel] or major [San Francisco Bay Blues] Real Country and Real Western take to a tale well, also [not to be confused by anything w/in the City Limits of Nashville]

A sad lyric w/in a peppy melody . . . true, Gord is a master at that irony. But, really it's a folk/blues formala w/ very ancient roots. A well know example would Jesse Fuller's aforementioned "San Francisco Bay Blues" [no, it wasn't a Grateful Dead song first]

When The Beach Boys first hit, I said . . . Hey! That's Four Freshman Stuff. Listen to those harmonys. Few believed me - or even knew who The Four Freshman were.

That's The Inspired Craftsman at work in Brian Wilson. Brian and Gord share that Gift [not talent - it's a Gift] to anylize another's work inspirational to them and turn it into something they themselves own. And here's the neat part: They get to pass it on.

Anybody find *The Alamo* And what was that Sawyer Brown song . . .

Rez

PS to Timetraveler: Other than Gord, the only person comes to mind who unfailingly gave credit was Frank Sinatra. He would begin each and every song by giving props to the writers - and to the arranger.

[RM]

Interesting discussion.

So where does Dylan fit into Lightfoot's work ?

Inspiration or Influence ?

[Kathy Number Four]

Marty Robbins has ALWAYS been a favorite of mine. "El Paso" ranks up there with my all-time favorite songs (by ANY artist). I really like his rendition of "Ribbon of Darkness".

[podunklander]

Rez,

I knew what you meant by *influence* ;) ...so it's really not that you had chosen the *wrong* word and certainly influence plays into all this. Your posts are very insightful. You've added and clarified the subject quite nicely. And of course, I continue to agree+ with you on all accounts.

I've never been a big fan or too familiar/knowledgeable of the Beach Boys and Brian Wilson, so this was very interesting to read about. I’ll also have to find “The Alamo” and the Sawyer Brown song.

A little off topic here but if I could choose only one, among the many gifted "phenomenal" songwriters of the past few decades, that along with Lightfoot I admire most would have to be... Harry Nilsson.

Their work couldn't be more dissimilar in most respects. But many of their songs have a simliar, powerful affect on me. Like -IYCRMM amd Without You (though Harry didn't write this). I appreciate their eclectic, volume of work. And I rather find it entertaining at times to compare/contrast their music.

Gordon's voice (Harry had a 3 1/2-octave range) and lyrics are much more pleasing and sophisticated than Harry's. I just gotta have Harry's crassness in the mix! Like his 'answer' to "For Lovin' Me" would be "You're Breakin' My Heart" (aka the "F-U song").

More related to the subject at hand...a lot of Harry's work was influenced/inspired by Lennon/McCartney and you can readily pick this out in songs like "One".

If Gord's music was/is (in whatever degree) influenced/inspired by any others....I can't pick it out. If there is, it may be that of someone's work which I'm not familiar with. However, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that I find a similar sophisticated quality in Lightfoot's musical compositions to that of Rachmaninoff's. That being said, if I were to be in a gambling mood, I'd bet money that Lightfoot found some inspiration in Sergi's music.

Also, along the lines of what you said about Folks and Blues, for sure! What comes to mind are songs like "Black is the Color".

RM -hmmmmm I've never thought about Dylan fitting into Lightfoot's work -aside from the most common denominator being the fact that both learned to tell a story from Guthrie's work. Dylan did much, much more in regards to Guthries' work...he delved into it with passion, ambition and even more. We can more readily note the results in Dylan's music (and voice).

Lightfoot's work is far more sophisticated, intricate., etc., than Dylan's, and I need not mention the quality of vocals. From what little I've read about Gordon breaking into the folk music scene...Dylan was among those he paid attention to and learned more about the biz from. I would think that Gordon would have learned more about Guthrie via Dylan.

I would love to learn more about Gord's early days (and later on too for that matter) pertaining to what music/who may have inspired his work the most. It's a bit fun to take some guesses though. Actually, I'm now curious to know what he enjoys in the present time! I've never even thought before. Does he ever talk about this? I've never read any anything where this is even mentioned.

[Jesse Joe]

Interesting discussion.

So where does Dylan fit into Lightfoot's work ?

Inspiration or Influence ?


Maybe both but I will go with Influence.

[RM]

Between podunklander and The Rez, this is like taking a musicology course. I love the wealth of knowledge and perspectives.

I tend to agree with Jesse Joe, and consider Dylan more of an influence than inspiration. It's pure speculation on my part, but I believe Lightfoot was going to make music whether Dylan existed or not. Lightfoot has mentioned the effect of Dylan's work on him, but I'll be dipped if I can remember where I read it.

Like podunklander, I really can't hear the effect in Lightfoot's tunes. I assume it was lyrical rather than musical.

[Patti]

I'm pretty sure I have that Marty Robbins album at home. It was my Dad's, and my turntable hasn't been working for quite a while.

[podunklander]

Between podunklander and The Rez, this is like taking a musicology course. I love the wealth of knowledge and perspectives.

I tend to agree with Jesse Joe, and consider Dylan more of an influence than inspiration. It's pure speculation on my part, but I believe Lightfoot was going to make music whether Dylan existed or not. Lightfoot has mentioned the effect of Dylan's work on him, but I'll be dipped if I can remember where I read it.

Like podunklander, I really can't hear the effect in Lightfoot's tunes. I assume it was lyrical rather than musical.


Well it's nice to find that the music appreciation course I took in college still comes in handy at times...other than in a Jeopardy category ;).

Now that you've mentioned having read something about Dylan/Lightfoot...it occurred to me that I had read something about Lightfoot/Guthrie. And like you, I was similarly dipped.

After I wrote about not being able to pick out these 'influences' etc., in Gord's songs I really meant that in a general manner-and that I'm not readily able to do so. I actually have picked out a few things here and there throughout time. These are things that I consider to be the exception to the rule, so to speak. It requires me to be nit-picky and having to take a more cerebral approach when listening, which ends up making me feel like I'm back in my music appreciation class. [Which was fun and interesting for sure -and served to hone my critical thinking skills].

Anyway -after giving this a little more thought (all I could afford time to do on that today) it occurred to me that there was one song that made me think of Guthrie -Borderstone. So I was listening to it with a more critical ear and thought that there was something Guthrie about it.

Then I felt like listening to my Dust Bowl Ballads CD since I hadn't in so long. After which I decided that there really wasn't much Guthrie in the song Borderstone afterall. Though I changed my mind again on that slightly when I tried to 'hear' Guthrie singing that song.

Just for ha-ha's I googled Lightfoot/Guthrie and the liner notes for Songbook came up on Wayne's site. Well of course, I had gotten Songbook for Christmas and did read the notes soon after. With much struggle as I seem to have lost my bifocals. Had I known it was on the website...much easier on the eyes to read.

Yeah, so here Gordon states that, "It's sort of an old-fashioned song, the kind of thing Woody Guthrie might have done". Gordon also adds here that the line, "It's been good to know you" (from The Wreck), "That's right from a Woody Guthrie lyric, "So long, it's been good to know you."" [from Guthrie's song, "So Long It's Been Good to Know Yuh." 'yuh' is sung as 'you' in one version]

So now I really can't tell you if the 'Guthrie' thing I had picked out -I had on my own or if that had been 'influenced' by the liner notes I had read!

RM -I'm guessing the Songbook liner notes is where you may have read about Dylan...for Station Master, "It has a very strong Bob Dylan undercurrent. He's been a very big influence on me throughout my career, and this song is about as close as I get to showing it."

Well, that answers some questions here! "Influence"..and "a very big" one at that! Gord refers to 'career' -this is all encompassing.

Sometime soon, I really need to take the time to read through Wayne's and Valerie's websites again and more thoroughly. Got to find my prescription bifocals first :rolleyes: . I'm still not well-adapted to this over 40 stuff like bifocals and not being able to readily recall having read something and where. I went to CVS last night and 'forgot' to buy, "Core4Life Advanced Memory Formula"...had cut out a $5 off coupon for this in the Sunday paper.

[Kathy Number Four]

Now that you've mentioned having read something about Dylan/Lightfoot...it occurred to me that I had read something about Lightfoot/Guthrie. And like you, I was similarly dipped.

So now I really can't tell you if the 'Guthrie' thing I had picked out -I had on my own or if that had been 'influenced' by the liner notes I had read!

I'm still not well-adapted to this over 40 stuff like bifocals and not being able to readily recall having read something and where. I went to CVS last night and 'forgot' to buy, "Core4Life Advanced Memory Formula"...had cut out a $5 off coupon for this in the Sunday paper.

Pam:

Sounds like you're suffering from the same malady that I am: CRS (can't remember sh**) :biggrin:

[podunklander]

Pam:

Sounds like you're suffering from the same malady that I am: CRS (can't remember sh**) :biggrin:


Yeah, the gray matter has gone awry,
my photographic memory has run out of film
Well, at least I can still remember to sh** :p

[Kathy Number Four]

Yeah, the gray matter has gone awry,
my photographic memory has run out of film
Well, at least I can still remember to sh** :p

When I make mental notes now, they're made with disappearing ink!
But I do believe in the "hereafter"... whenever I enter a room, I think "Now WHAT was I here after?"

[podunklander]

When I make mental notes now, they're made with disappearing ink!
But I do believe in the "hereafter"... whenever I enter a room, I think "Now WHAT was I here after?"

LOL :biggrin: oh Kathy...what are we to do??!!!

Well one thing I should start working on is 'the story', that is -the one I'm going to be telling everyone over and over (and over) again, when I'm in my 80's and 90's.

[Kathy Number Four]

LOL :biggrin: oh Kathy...what are we to do??!!!

Well one thing I should start working on is 'the story', that is -the one I'm going to be telling everyone over and over (and over) again, when I'm in my 80's and 90's.

Which story would that be....
"The night I met Gordon Lightfoot for the first time" ;) ????
I'm ALREADY telling that one over and over and over :biggrin: !!!

[podunklander]

Which story would that be....
"The night I met Gordon Lightfoot for the first time" ;) ????
I'm ALREADY telling that one over and over and over :biggrin: !!!

LOL...tell that one to me again, Kathy!!!

YEAH, for sure my meet/greet Gord will be among my tales of the old times! Hopefully, I'll still be able to pronounce his name properly without any teest.

[Patti]

I'm pretty sure I have that Marty Robbins album at home. It was my Dad's, and my turntable hasn't been working for quite a while.

Nope. I went thru my albums and the only Marty Robbins song I found was "Singing The Blues". But I did find a Pozo-Seco Singers album with "Ribbon of Darkness" on it.

[Jesse Joe]

Nope. I went thru my albums and the only Marty Robbins song I found was "Singing The Blues". But I did find a Pozo-Seco Singers album with "Ribbon of Darkness" on it.


Thanks Patti, for this was the first I heard of Pozo-Seco ... Went to try and find "Ribbon Of Darkness", with no luck. But did find a great classic, "The House Of Risin Sun" on a good old turn table. They sound pretty good to me. Three cheers for POZO-SECO !!! :clap: :clap: :clap: :)

YouTube - House of the riseing sun The Pozo Seco Singers lp cut

[Jesse Joe]

Sorry Patti, but I just cant find Pozo-Seco doing, "Ribbon Of Darkness" but thanks anyway for introducing this fine singer, new to me... :) Maybe it will come on one day or someone else will find the tune. :redface: :)

[Patti]

Thanks for finding "The House Of The Rising Sun" by them on YouTube. The Pozo-Seco Singers names are Susan Taylor, Donnie Williams, and Lofton Kline. A native born Texas Trio.

[Jesse Joe]

Are they still at it Patti ? :)

[The Rez]

A Small Aside . . .

The Donnie Williams of the Poso-Seco Singers
became *Don Williams* - grew sideburns -
and recorded bouscous hits of his own

Ever hear *Tulsa Time*

That's li'l Donnie . . .

Great recordings, too - voice mixed up-front

Rez

[Dream Street Rose]

Don Williams retired at the end of 2006. I would have loved to see him in concert just one more time. Oh well, thank goodness for DVDs and CDs.

Thank you Rez for sharing your knowledge. Hope you are doing well.

DSR

[mnmouse]

We saw Don Williams towards the end of his farewell tour, DSR - he still has a voice like melted chocolate. :)

[gwen snyder]

Good topic,
Did Don Williams ever do any of Gord's songs or visa versa?
I love Don Williams voice. He has love songs that are as great as Gord's.
Donnie?
Do people call Gord, Gordie? From his youth or whatever?

[The Rez]

Dunno on The Donnie and/or The Gordie . . .

but Allison Kraus sings a shivver-haunt on *Just a Country Boy*
[100 Miles album]

Rez

[gwen snyder]

Allison Kraus would do a magical version of IYCRMM!

[johnfowles]

Good topic,
Did Don Williams ever do any of Gord's songs or visa versa?
I love Don Williams voice. He has love songs that are as great as Gord's.
Donnie?
Do people call Gord, Gordie? From his youth or whatever?

I have an mp3 somewhere of the Don Williams version of IYCRMM, which i seem to remember was pretty good
I enjoyed the Pozo Seco Singers way back when and have one vinyl album here
There are a few very early records (singles I think) which show "Gord" and/or "Gordie"
Lightfoot as the artist
http://i22.ebayimg.com/04/i/000/d4/e4/cd68_1.JPG

[Jesse Joe]

YouTube - RIBBON OF DARKNESS by CONNIE SMITH