Gord Chord question [Archive] - Gordon Lightfoot Forums

Unsettled 1

07-21-2010, 10:50 PM

I am hoping that with all of these guitar playing Lightheads, someone can help me with a missing chord or two. I can usually hear it but I'm stumped this time.

In "Can't Depend on Love", what is the progression for "I was only trying to " before it goes to e minor on "by with".

I would appreciate any help. The sad part is, I used to know this, and can't remember. Old age perhaps?

Thanks,

Brian

Wheels

07-22-2010, 12:50 AM

Hi Brian, Sorry, but I hardly even know that song let alone the chords.
Will try to take a shot at it soon after I listen to it.

07-22-2010, 10:48 AM

Brian,

i fake it with a Bm chord adding G....i suppose it's like a G major 7th with B bass

someone like GordisKing may be more specific... looking forward to your renditon

Peter Bro10

07-22-2010, 06:27 PM

Just curious, have you checked Wayne's site?
http://www.lightfoot.ca/cantdpnd.htm
Some of the B chords throw me, but that's nothing new! (Never met a B chord I liked! oh, I like the sound, just have a heck of a time trying to play them!!!)

07-22-2010, 08:27 PM

any help?

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=lightfootfan#p/u/37/wQuueMZUDRg

thx to char for this:)

Unsettled 1

07-22-2010, 10:06 PM

Thanks to everyone for the help. As for Wayne's site, I have never heard of the listed chord (Bm5+) and cannot find it online either.
Dan Hill is hanging with what would be a Bm in Gord's range, so maybe he is as stumped as we are. I used to play that song all the time, and I don't remember missing any chords, but alas, even muscle memory will not revive it. I appreciate all the effort. One of us will figure it out.
It has become the holy grail of Gord chord's, at least till I stumble again.

Brian

Jesse Joe

07-23-2010, 07:41 AM

Here is a good question to ask 'THE MAN' himself.

Although we still haven't heard from GordisKing or maybe Ron (lighthead to toe)

Interesting thread this makes. I also am looking forward to your renditon Brian.

07-23-2010, 09:44 AM

I have never heard of the listed chord (Bm5+) and cannot find it online either

that's an augmented (+) chord ie. take the 5th and make it sharp, in this case the F# to a G

but the + doesn't sound quite right, on piano anyhow...on guitar i just go with a Bm7

i believe Dan Hill used Wayne's reference as he prepped for Hugh's room

charlene

07-23-2010, 09:52 AM

I was asked to send info/mp3 or where song could be found for Dan to use.. I believe he used Lightfoot's recording of the song that I sent for him to use.

johnfowles

07-23-2010, 12:14 PM

It has been 10 plus years since I was able to get my stroke-affected left hand 's fingers around the fret so I cannot now test this out for myself but for reference here are the first few lines with chords as presented on Wayne's site:-
C) I spent most of my life outside (G) in the driving rain
(Bm5+) I was only trying to get (Em9) by with some of (Em) life's ameni(Am7)ties
Well (G) nothing's free
(G/B) I got more than I (Am7) bargained for, (G/B) now it's (B7) plain to (C) see
I (G/B) can't depend on (Am) love to defend (G) me
Here is a good question to ask 'THE MAN' himself.
Although we still haven't heard from GordisKing or maybe Ron (lighthead to toe)
Interesting thread this makes. I also am looking forward to your renditon Brian.
yes well no doubt our busking Vancouverine has every one of Gord's chords etched deeply into his memory but some years ago Ron passed to me a number of his singalong sheet music volumes.So he probably does not have the relevant book to hand
I have two copies of the ODR book (one is ex Ron plus one cedded to me by the chatroom pioneer Rik Stevens.)
I have therefore been able to scan the relevant page see the attachment full sized
I note that whoever contrived the chords set the song in a different key to the one that Wayne used so the recalcitrant Bm5+ is unfortunately not shown therein
i tried searching for it at:-
http://jguitar.com/chordsearch?chordsearch=Bm5%2B (http://jguitar.com/chordsearch?chordsearch=Bm5%2B)
which reported:-
"The following chord symbols were not understood. Please make sure they are correct and try again.

<DIR><DIR>"Bm5+"

</DIR></DIR>However as Gord has recently been making great play on the fact that he plays capoed music I feel pretty confident, Brian, that with your capo you can adapt the chords shown on the sheet music page to suit your vocal range or whatever your particular whim dictates

johnfowles

07-23-2010, 12:28 PM

Whilst digging out the various sheet music book copies I refound a useful "Magic Guitar Chord Chart" a 4 sided crib sheet (that I used to use in the days when I still had pretensions of mastering guitar playing!!) It does show "augmented" chords so I wiil attach 4 scans for what they are worth

07-23-2010, 12:33 PM

ok, there ya go, it's a Bm (go with first instincts, lol) or just a straight C#m if non-capoed

I believe Wayne's site has all chords charted assuming a capo is used, I assume to make it more guitar friendly and to emulate Gord's approach

wow, I've not seen a GL sheet music score or book full of em...these are so piano friendly, can you scan them all, sir John? lol

DawnsMinstrel

07-23-2010, 01:36 PM

Hi everyone,

I just spotted this thread now and saw my name mentioned. It's been a while since I've listened to the song and I'm and work at the moment. Tonight or tomorrow I'll give it a listen and give my two cents for what they're worth. I don't usually trust sheet music because it's often been simplified.

Hope everyone's doing well. By the way, I've moved to New Hampshire now in case any Lightheads in the area.

Tim

johnfowles

07-23-2010, 10:56 PM

wow, I've not seen a GL sheet music score or book full of em...these are so piano friendly, can you scan them all, sir John? lol

In a word NO:p but
You really should take your blinkers off and/or get out more young Mr Jones.
The subject of the "singalong" music books has been aired here before I am sure not least by the elder Mr Jones who I suspect is still convinced that he once owned the book that matches the Sunday Concert album which is one that never comes up on Ebay.
Try this link
http://instruments.shop.ebay.com/Sheet-Music-Song-Books-/20833/i.html?_nkw=gordon+lightfoot&_catref=1&_dmd=1&_dmpt=Music_on_Vinyl&_fln=1&_ipg=&_sop=10&_trksid=p3286.c0.m282
Yiu will find that of the 32 items currently on offer many are based on the album and their front covers are a facsimile of the original vinyl album cover. To make my point I'll attach a sample
Right now a seller in Muntreal has the extended Back Here On Earth book and has pictures showing the song content and a pair of sample pages at:-
http://cgi.ebay.com/GORDON-LIGHTFOOT-BACK-HERE-EARTH-HITS-SONGBOOK-/160459532002?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item255c2226e2
The same seller is offering:-
http://cgi.ebay.com/GORDON-LIGHTFOOT-SIT-DOWN-YOUNG-STRANGER-SONGBOOK-/350375675833?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51940487b9
both at the low starting price of $3.95
Of course if you are desperate for a few songs I could scan my copies

johnfowles

07-23-2010, 11:25 PM

not least by the elder Mr Jones who I suspect is still convinced that he once owned the book that matches the Sunday Concert album which is one that never comes up on Ebay.

Jimbo you really should by now have found and read Wayne's comprehensive page on this subject at:-
http://www.lightfoot.ca/songbook.htm
for yours and Ron's education and interest Wayne says:-
SUNDAY CONCERT
- No book was issued.
- See "Sit Down Young Stranger"

SIT DOWN YOUNG STRANGER
- Apology, In A Windowpane and Leaves Of Grass from Sunday Concert are included in this book. Unfortunately, Ballad Of The Yarmouth Castle and The Lost Children are not

Jesse Joe

07-24-2010, 08:31 AM

These are my 4 Gordon Lightfoot (Song Books) but no "Yarmouth Castle" in anyone of them.

*

Unsettled 1

07-24-2010, 05:33 PM

This thread has taken on quite a life.

I believe I may have found a passable solution after listening over and aver again to that line. It appears to be an Em9 (specific variation) to a quick G/b to Am7. I play this in C, although Gord plays it in D I believe. There's still something missing, but it will have to do, pending further enlightenment.

My thanks again to all for the effort, from those who will keep his great music alive!

DawnsMinstrel

07-24-2010, 07:30 PM

Hi everyone,

I'm back with my two cents. First a technical matter. As we all know, Gord capos at fret two. Which means that what we casually refer to as a "G" (fret three of 6 fret 2 of five fret 3 of 1 ) when referred to the capo position is in fact an A and so on. This is a distinction that tends not to be made most of the time but it drives me a bit crazy. That said I will speak as if the capo is the nut as is customary and put the actual chords in parentheses.

Unsettled is pretty close. Em9(F#m9) would work. What I'm hearing is different on different verses. In verse 1 I hear Bm flat 6(C#m flat 6). It's played on the middle four strings with the 5th string fretted at 2(4) and the 4th string fretted at 4(6) and the g and b strings played open(2). From there he keeps that fingering but plays an E(F#) in the base which makes that same configuration into an Em sus2(F#m sus2).

In verse two it sounds like the configuration I described above is the same for the 5th 4th and 2nd strings, but that the g string is now fretted at 2(4) which makes the chord a
Bm7(C#m7) that's missing its minor third. I think I prefer the sound of verse one to verse two, but they both work.

An interesting thing I noticed along the way: The notes for the part of the lyric that starts with "I was only" and ends on "to get" form what's called the phrygian mode of the G(A) major scale. This is just the G(A) scale played starting on the B(C#) instead of the G(A) below and ending on the B(C#) a major 3rd above the octave.

I hope this helps and that the parenthetic chords don't drive the rest of you crazy. That's what I get for studying jazz.

Happy picking.

Tim

DawnsMinstrel

07-24-2010, 07:38 PM

By the way unsettled, I just read your post above a bit more carefully. I think you mean that the melody starts on C(D). But the song resolves to G(A). But C(D) is pretty prominent in the song and it's the dominant 4 chord in the key of G(A). So the key of the song is a bit ambiguous.

Unsettled 1

07-24-2010, 09:49 PM

You are absolutely correct sir. Thanks for the clarification.

DawnsMinstrel

07-24-2010, 11:14 PM

I just realized that I made a mistake above. The fingerings I describe are okay but I misnamed one of the chords. I should have said Bm flat 6 (C#m flat 6) which is consistent with what I think jj was saying further up. A +5 and a flat 6 are the same thing. Sorry about that. Maybe I should edit the post....

Jesse Joe

07-25-2010, 06:56 AM

Nobody's prefect :biggrin: (perfect) Tim, it's an honest mistake. ;)

07-25-2010, 08:13 AM

...what's called the phrygian mode of the G(A) major scale

great stuff, Tim....

07-25-2010, 08:17 AM

... is in fact an A and so on. This is a distinction that tends not to be made most of the time but it drives me a bit crazy

ok, that makes two of us...but it no longer drives me crazy

lighthead2toe

07-25-2010, 03:16 PM

Hi Guys.

Sorry to be away for so long but the weather in Vancouver has been just fantastic and I'm working away like crazy doing outdoor shows and enjoying every moment. After all, is it really possible to ever get tired of playing Gordon Lightfoot songs especially when there is audience out there willing to listen? And the answer is....

Now to answer the infamous Gord chord question:

It's "Em9."

The "Old Dan's Records" song book lays everything out in detail.

So the index finger covers the A string on the second fret and the little finger covers the D string on the fourth fret.

A beautiful chord for a very beautiful song, as only Gord can do it.

Stay loose.

RJ.

Cheers,

RJ.

lighthead2toe

07-25-2010, 03:20 PM

Forgot to mention also that Gord plays it with the capo on the second fret.

In his liner notes he says to use to capo to adjust to your individual vocal range. R.

DawnsMinstrel

07-26-2010, 08:58 AM

Hi again everyone,

I've been traveling to Santa Fe NM so I missed a day of checking this thread. Thanks for the moral support jj ;).

Just one thing: I'm going to have stick to my guns here and respectfully disagree with Ron. As I've said already, I often find myself hearing things that aren't in the books.

The notes of the chords in question are:

Em9 - E G B F#

Bm flat 6 - B D F# G

What I hear - B F# G B
- B F# G C#
- E B F# G B

As you can see the chords are closely related. Emin9 will work, but it won't sound exactly like what's on the recording.

As for the variations in what i hear, they are partly measure dependent and partly verse dependent.

Anyway, the fingerings I suggest in the post above should sound right if you try them out.

Best, Tim

charlene

07-26-2010, 09:20 AM

yeah...what Tim said..my thoughts too.
;)

damn i wish I had some musical talent..

Jim Nasium

07-26-2010, 09:24 AM

07-26-2010, 10:39 AM

couple of things:

i think Ron is referring to the section a few measures beyond what we were originally discussing (ie. the start of the melodic run)...glad you are back safe and sound, my good man

imo, the entire melodic run we've discussed appeals to me the least in this composition

Tim, i think you have jessie and myself mixed up...but i also support you!

in general, often play a root bass when it should be otherwise (eg, C/E or C/G)

sir John and Jessie...i didn't realize there were scores for all GL songs/albums, just the 'hits'....i think i've basically figured out and transposed a whack over the years but here are 3 that I would be interested in comparing if you don't mind scanning:

Nous Vivons Ensemble - My Pony Won't Go - Another Lazy Morning

perhaps the first section of Cabaret also...I usually just jump in after the 'pop'

cheers

ok, Round #2, lol)

What is the chord in On the high Seas at the start of the "and since I don't know, let me guess" phrase?

it could be diminished...i just passed thru it usually playing a dominant 7th

lighthead2toe

07-26-2010, 12:06 PM

Hey guys.

Just decided to take the day off and have some fun here as well as catch up on a few chores that have been on hold for a while.

But let me start with the most recent and address JJ's chord matter since he doesn't know and I won't keep him guessing.

From the "Dream Street Rose" songbook for piano and guitar (3rd fret) the piano chord is "Am7-5" and the guitar chord is "F#m7-5."
So for the guitar it would be like an Am with either the little finger or thumb covering the low E string on the second fret.
Summing up, the B string is covered on the first fret, the low E, D and G string covered on the second fret.
That's the "And since I" part. The "Don't know" part is a B7 (piano, D7) and the "Let me guess" part ends with an Em (Gm piano).

So JJ, now you're back "On the High Seas."

I'll bring along the appropriate songbooks with me when I come to Ontario for the month of Sept. and hopefully we'll get together for a "scanning party."

Cheers,

RJ.

Jesse Joe

07-26-2010, 12:28 PM

Jesse Joe

07-26-2010, 12:32 PM

(2) My Pony Wont Go

Jesse Joe

07-26-2010, 12:39 PM

(3) Another Lazy Morning

Jesse Joe

07-26-2010, 12:55 PM

(4) Cabaret

Jesse Joe

07-26-2010, 01:01 PM

Hey jj,

I dont have "On The High Seas" in my Song Books !

http://www.lightfoot.ca/onhighse.htm

lighthead2toe

07-26-2010, 01:25 PM

These are my 4 Gordon Lightfoot (Song Books) but no "Yarmouth Castle" in anyone of them.

*

An interesting point to raise here would be that the corresponding songbooks to Gord's albums came out in different versions.
As an example , the "Old Dan's Records" songbook that Jesse Joe highlights is the "piano/vocal version. If you zoom in you can see it clearly.
The one that I have is the "guitar, original lead sheets and notes" version.
My "Summer Side of Life" songbook also has guitar, original lead sheets and notes.
These versions are also hand written by Gord.

lighthead2toe

07-26-2010, 01:33 PM

"Ballad of the Yarmouth Castle" is available on "www.chordie.com." It's a great song and I love the version John Stinson does with Paul Bartlett on lead guitar.
RJ.

lighthead2toe

07-26-2010, 02:38 PM

Jimbo you really should by now have found and read Wayne's comprehensive page on this subject at:-
http://www.lightfoot.ca/songbook.htm
for yours and Ron's education and interest Wayne says:-
SUNDAY CONCERT
- No book was issued.
- See "Sit Down Young Stranger"

SIT DOWN YOUNG STRANGER
- Apology, In A Windowpane and Leaves Of Grass from Sunday Concert are included in this book. Unfortunately, Ballad Of The Yarmouth Castle and The Lost Children are not

The ongoing uncertainty of the validity of the "Sunday Concert" songbook keeps my mind constantly in the "probing mode" and I have to admit that I am unable to come up with anything to this point to confirm that there was in fact one published.
What troubles me though is that apart from the vivid image of it there in my collection, I also remember learning the chords to "Ballad of the Yarmouth Castle," "The Lost Children" as well as "In a Windowpane," and "Leaves of Grass," as I used to get requests for those tunes at parties etc. in those days.
I would never be able to figure out "Gord's chords" without the help of his songbooks as my ear is far from keen when it comes to sorting out individual notes, chords etc. and I never did learn how to read music.
The Sunday Concert album was recorded in March, 1969 and I remember it well as I was there in Massey Hall that afternoon up real close to the front.
There was no E Bay in those days and Wayne Francis was just a kid.
My songbooks were shared with other aspiring Gordon Lightfoot fans and there were occasions when I needed to refer to one and upon discovering that it wasn't in the collection I simply went out and bought a second copy, and I still have several duplicates of some.
"A & A Records and Books" was next door to "Sam the Record Man" on Yonge Street in Toronto and that's where I would buy all my songbooks.
The "Sunday Concert Songbook" issue might haunt me to the grave. I need help!

Stay loose.

The Elder Jones.

DawnsMinstrel

07-26-2010, 05:10 PM

Bm5+

||---|---|---|---|---|----
||---|---|-4-|---|---|----|
||---|---|---|---|---|----
||---|---|---|-5-|---|----
||---|-2-|---|---|---|----
||---|---|---|---|---|----X

As suggested in the OLD DAN'S RECORDS Songbook.

The left hand fingers are numbered 1 to 5. As has already been pointed out the 2 bars in question are the Phrygrian mode in G, and the "ing" of trying is on the G note. So I guess that is why it [G] is included in the Bm chord. I am aware that Gordon capos his songs. That's my 10 pence worth.

Hi Jim,

I don't doubt either that this is what is in the Old Dan's Records book or that you're aware of the capoing issue- my apologies for making such an issue of it -

But this chord is not what I hear when I listen to the song. Technically, it's also not a Bm+5. There is a crucial difference between a Bm5+ and a Bm flat 6. A Bm5+ is a minor triad with the 5th sharped. There is no natural 5th in the chord. A Bm flat 6 is a full Bminor (natural 5th included) with a flatted sixth (a sharped 5) added. So we hear both the F# (the natural 5th) and the flatted 6th (G). The chord you've presented above has both the F# - played on string 4 and the G played on string 3.

The D obtained by fretting string 2 at three is the minor 3rd which does belong to Bm flat 6, but if you include it you won't hear what's on the record. Remove that finger and play the B string open and you will here it in all it's glory.

JJ -actually it was both of you.

To all, I'm sorry if I'm being a bit over-precise here but I got the impression that Brian was asking for the chord that best matches what's on the recording so the books are only useful if they actually say what's used on the recording and my experience is that they rarely get it completely right.

regards to all,

Tim

lighthead2toe

07-26-2010, 07:31 PM

Tim, it's great to have you on board. Between the lot of us we'll sort this thing out come hell or high water.
What I would like to add here is the musical score is hand written by Gord in my songbook and unfortunately I can't read musical scores , but the sounds you're hearing with your keen ear probably are the ones that Gord has noted in the score and there are plenty of them.
So the "Bm5+" (as in Jim's post) begins at the line "I was only trying to get by, then the "Em9," with some of (Em) life's a(Em7)menities.
And these chords, together with what the notes in the musical score produce, we might be close to answer to the Gord chord question.

RJ.

Unsettled 1

07-26-2010, 09:46 PM

Now this is getting good!

I am admittedly self taught, and wouldn't know a Triad if you slapped me with a Phyrgrian backhand, but I now believe (after listening) that it is 2nd string(B) and 4th string F#on "I was only", than dropping the B to an open A on "by with" (maybe adding a D, than down to em.

I also think it's possible that the G-F# roll you hear in the recording is Terry, due to the fact that Gord tends to stay with the same rhythm, which in this case appears to be his (Dentist inspired) standard like IYCRMM, and those notes appear a bit stronger than his guitar during those lines.

That's my conspiracy theory added to the mix.

Thanks to JJ, RJ, and Tim, who all know way too much Theory...

07-26-2010, 10:03 PM

Thanks to JJ, RJ, and Tim, who all know way too much Theory...

Way too much indeed.

I know Lightfoot has studied music theory, but I wonder if he applied it in his songwriting days. Or, did he just think "that's sounds good. I'll go with it".

charlene

07-26-2010, 10:18 PM

Way too much indeed.

I know Lightfoot has studied music theory, but I wonder if he applied it in his songwriting days. Or, did he just think "that's sounds good. I'll go with it".

yeah...what Ron said...
lol
;)

DawnsMinstrel

07-26-2010, 10:59 PM

Yeah, there is a lot going on I have to admit. I wouldn't be such a pain in the rear about it if it weren't for the fact that at least in verse one I definitely hear both the sharped 5th and the natural 5th leading me to think that the g and b strings are played open there.

I agree with RJ about the sequence generally, I'd have to check some of the details, but will say that in the same way that Bm5+ and Bm flat 6 are closely related, so too are Em sus2 and Em 9. An Em sus 2 is essentially and Em with the minor third dropped by a half step to the 2. The F# that still sounds when the E is played in the base on "by with..." is that 2..... but..... it's also a 9! So, if the minor third is still in there somewhere it may indeed be more correct to call it an Em9. I guess I was preferring sus2 because the F# is just a step away from the tonic. I think of 9's as being more than an octave away, but I must admit that the G which is the minor third is still there too. So Em9 it is.

lighthead2toe

07-26-2010, 11:31 PM

Great stuff guys. You are the greatest!

Just to finish off the day with some final fun before I retire:

Remember the movie "Amadeus?" ya know; that Mozart guy?

Well, there's a cool part in that movie that just might, in some dreamy way, apply to this scenario.

You might need to take a look at movie to join in the fun here, but when it comes to the part where Mozart realizes that the Emperor has canceled his opera, he meets up with Salieri, the designated court composer to the Emperor to express his indignation.

Salieri, being in total awe of Mozart's gift of music and a jealous one as well, sort of convinces Mozart that he is on his side and tells him that he knows why the Emperor canceled Mozart's opera.

Salieri: I can speak for the Emperor:

"You make too many demands on the royal ear.
The poor man can't concentrate for more than one hour.
You gave him four!"

"TOO MANY NOTES!" (quote from the Emperor)

It's now available in CD format (two discs) which includes twenty minutes that were chopped out of the original TV version. The sound in greatly enhanced and the picture quality is amazing.

Keep intoned.

Cheers,

RJ.

charlene

07-27-2010, 08:24 AM

Great stuff guys. You are the greatest!

"TOO MANY NOTES!" (quote from the Emperor)

Cheers,

RJ.

LOLOL!!!!

Jim Nasium

07-27-2010, 09:02 AM

DawnsMinstrel

Hi Jim,

I don't doubt either that this is what is in the Old Dan's Records book or that you're aware of the capoing issue- my apologies for making such an issue of it -

But this chord is not what I hear when I listen to the song. Technically, it's also not a Bm+5. There is a crucial difference between a Bm5+ and a Bm flat 6. A Bm5+ is a minor triad with the 5th sharped. There is no natural 5th in the chord. A Bm flat 6 is a full Bminor (natural 5th included) with a flatted sixth (a sharped 5) added. So we hear both the F# (the natural 5th) and the flatted 6th (G). The chord you've presented above has both the F# - played on string 4 and the G played on string 3.

The D obtained by fretting string 2 at three is the minor 3rd which does belong to Bm flat 6, but if you include it you won't hear what's on the record. Remove that finger and play the B string open and you will here it in all it's glory.

When I put in my 10 pence worth I was not expecting a $30 answer. But thanks for taking the trouble.

lighthead2toe

07-27-2010, 08:13 PM

Well Jim, ya know us Lightheads: We would never put a five dollar saddle on a two dollar horse. (just a pun) RJ.

DawnsMinstrel

07-27-2010, 11:02 PM

What can I say? Even in my day job I'm in the kind of business that demands this kind of detail. I guess it's a bad habit. I shall cease and desist. Regards to all. -Tim

Jim Nasium

07-28-2010, 07:23 AM

lighthead2toe, I know what you mean, I would never put a 10 gallon hat on a 2 pint head.

08-04-2010, 12:24 PM

I shall cease and desist... -Tim

too bad, I enjoyed every word of it...probably a top 10 Corfid thread, imo:)

Jessie, THANK YOU for taking the time to do those scans...I will give em a go!:clap:

Jesse Joe

08-04-2010, 05:22 PM

You are very welcome jj ! :)

lighthead2toe

08-04-2010, 07:38 PM

But my dear friends, it would be untimely to lay this thread to rest when it has not yet come fully to fruition.

I recall in a newsgroup post by Richard Harrison, who doesn't post here, but in that post he told that when Gord composed, he wrote down the actual musical score, or "all the notes," or something to that effect. (he might have even mentioned Mozart). It was quite a while ago and I am unable to find it in the newsgroup discussion. Maybe John could help us here with his skill at bringing up "all the notes."

But as I mentioned, the songbook I have has "all those notes" in there that Gord wrote because they are the originals, in his own handwriting and I want to share them here and will pursue that goal as soon as I can find a way to have them scanned.

Stay loose,
RJ.

johnfowles

08-05-2010, 02:13 PM

I recall in a newsgroup post by Richard Harrison, who doesn't post here, but in that post he told that when Gord composed, he wrote down the actual musical score, or "all the notes," or something to that effect. (he might have even mentioned Mozart). It was quite a while ago and I am unable to find it in the newsgroup discussion. Maybe John could help us here with his skill at bringing up "all the notes."
RJ.

Ever ready to take up a challenge I have searched the Newsgroup for (initially) "Harison (note only the one "r") notes"
I found this interesting old thread
subject Gord's Recording Process
started by an erk named Kenyon Wallace at:-
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/alt.music.lightfoot/browse_thread/thread/37c0d9d4ac6e49f8/8ba09c654e78d7e6#8ba09c654e78d7e6
I also tried several likely other combinations but dismally failed to find one that completely fitted in with Ron's memories but as always I found other interesting threads
Here is another long and readable thread
Songwriting.....is there a trick,formula,?..ideas?
at:-
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/alt.music.lightfoot/browse_thread/thread/2f2d0eed2fcd4772/95c05cee97b927ed#95c05cee97b927ed
Off Topic I also enjoyed
OT: Authorship of Whiter Shade of Pale:-
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/alt.music.lightfoot/browse_thread/thread/1e4064f8090c956e/4caa9617b5c91b46#4caa9617b5c91b46
which includes a number of postings by Mr Harison

08-07-2010, 05:29 PM

nice old thread gems, sir John (an 'erk'?....lol)

yeah, Ron...i guess many have seen the dramatization of a pajama-clad GL scoring a few measures of Pussywillows in the old CBC Telescope doc

i've assumed that GL brings out the theory and actually compose music (not just author the lyrics) WITHOUT a guitar in hand or piano in front of him if he found himself in that situation...yeah, he's a composer, not just a songwriter

but even if his nature is to be quite rigid and well prepared, i would also think a few alt-arrangements unfold during studio sessions and/or performance rehearsals prior to some of the tracks being laid down

i recall a cute moment during the Gord Downie and Lightfoot songwriters chat when Downie was responding to a question about how the Hip come up with recording material

Downie grinned and said something like 'some ideas are brought along in advance but usually we get set in studio and I say, ok, let's jam in D and see what happens'

Lightfoot looked a bit horrified at Downie's revelation...i had a big inner chuckle on, lol

hey, even though jjo added the youtube link elsewhere, this thread needs it here also....again, congrats and wonderful stuff, 7761864! (can we call you 776 for short?;) )YouTube- ‪Can't Depend on Love 1.wmv‬&lrm;

Unsettled 1

08-08-2010, 01:45 AM

It's kind of catchy! I just wanted to say thanks again for all the input. It's turned into quite a thread.

08-08-2010, 08:28 AM

It's kind of catchy!

... or even shorter: 'double 7'...sounds very agent-ish. lol

maybe the chord notes answer is here:
http://cgi.ebay.ca/Gordon-Lightfoot-Guitar-Tab-Software-Lessons-CD-BONUS-/320569647717?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item4aa370a265#ht_2338wt_1139

i don't effectively read scores or tabs but tried to check out the example they give...it's called Right Here Waiting...dunno that GL track...maybe it's a hidden track off Waiting for You;)

Jim Nasium

08-08-2010, 09:45 AM

jj. Something somewhat similar to the ebay Lighfoot thing cropped up on this site some little while ago, Homespuntapes do this DVD.

http://www.homespuntapes.com/shop/product.aspx?ID=1424

08-09-2010, 01:13 AM

i must have missed it (or been previously disinterested) jim, thanks

it's recent discussion threads that have sparked an interest in the vast selection of GL's musical scores plus all this guitar tab and chord progression chatter

Jim Nasium

08-09-2010, 03:09 PM

jj, I find it very hard to believe that you would be disinterested in anything Gordon Lightfoot. The mind Boggles!

08-12-2010, 04:59 PM

lol, jim:)...so true

hey, brian (aka 776)...have you heard this live version?

for this arrangement (versus studio recording), it just sounds like he's using a straight forward C#m (Bm capo+2) for the chord in question...sounds good...maybe less is more....enjoy:)

YouTube- CDOL live

Jesse Joe

08-12-2010, 05:11 PM

Very beautiful,,, your really good at this jj. That song is such another 'GEM' of his, it's simply unbelievable the song writing talent he has. A True Genius !

Unsettled 1

08-13-2010, 02:02 AM

Wow, another great clip. That's a great version and only here, would I get to hear it. Thanks to you JJ , and BTW, that chord sounds the same to me, an Em9 variation, but we've established that my knowledge of chord structure is "hear it and hope".
I'm ready to keep this thread going with another episode of "what's that chord?" Maybe tomorrow after a bit more fumbling around. The song is "Whisper My Name"....

08-17-2010, 01:26 PM

thanks and glad some of you may not have heard that live version...cheers

lighthead2toe

09-05-2010, 06:20 PM

Hey guys.

You won't believe this, but I scanned the whole kip & kiboodle, and guess what?

The message came back to me saying there were just "TOO MANY NOTES" for the file to get through (in a language that is beyond the comprehension of this unskilled wannabe computer technocrat)

But bear in mind that this attempt was but a feeble one and of course done by yours truly alone.

However, my advisory council has come to the rescue and they tell me that we will get this thing done come hell or high water.

In my ever expanding desire to share all with what I have in my Gord collection, on my own, I decided to scan "all the photos" that these precious books have within their covers together with "all the notes" and that was not a wise decision as I subsequently discovered. Just "too......."

However, with a little inspiration, we will eventually get this up there on Corfid.

Stay loose.

RJ.

lighthead2toe

09-06-2010, 08:46 PM

ok.

this is the first try rj.

lighthead2toe

09-06-2010, 08:54 PM

Here's the second batch. Touch wood.

09-06-2010, 09:33 PM

09-06-2010, 09:36 PM

I'm ready to keep this thread going with another episode of "what's that chord?" Maybe tomorrow after a bit more fumbling around. The song is "Whisper My Name"....

i bet that Kenyon or the legendary Derek (also a closet percussionist as you'll see later in the clip) know...again, cool mic job by Ottawa Mike

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=opus62#p/u/25/uJQcHkwptzc

charlene

09-06-2010, 10:58 PM

Hey Jamesd - did you get the mail I sent you as per your request when you were here??

09-07-2010, 09:56 AM

yes, thanks! :):) i love getting snail mail! (it was pretty quick actually, lol)

ron/brian...yes, this is Gord's handwriting for sure...for starters see the scoring of the treble clef and time signature notation for part 2 of Cabaret compared to his writing out some lines of Pussywillows in this image below (from the 1968 Telescope)

lighthead2toe

09-08-2010, 05:14 PM

WOW, ron, even though there are no prizes, you deserve the Order of Canada for this, or at least the Order of Corfid....send me your hogtown agenda and let's give a few of these a whirl....thank YOU for the promises kept:clap:

Hey JJ.

You are too kind!

But thank you and yes, things are getting done, however we still have to put "Whisper My Name" up there and we we'll do that asap.

The hogtown agenda is still "sorting out the hang ups that we find," but I have a call in for Kenyon and right now my guitar is in the trusty hands of Gord's luthier, John Laroque and I should have it back sometime next week.

I'm at "Gogarty's Castle" as usual in Scarborough and will send an email when I'm out of the "Flyin' Blind" zone which hopefully will be when I get back from the dentist tomorrow.

RJ.

09-08-2010, 06:23 PM

I get back from the dentist tomorrow.

RJ.

cool, rj

btw:

tell the dentist to turn off the radio...don't want to lose you before your time!

lighthead2toe

09-09-2010, 05:14 PM

All good news, JJ.

No erroneous radio reports and no cavities. No reason for freezin'! Can't beat that aye bye?

Spoke with Kenyon last night and we will getting together for an early afternoon session sometime next week, date yet to be set. Will keep you posted on that one.

Still have to touch base with John S. and the two Pauls. Better get on to that now.

Stay loose.

RJ.

BTW, John Laroque gave me a lot of stars re my ol' beat up black Yamaha guitar. He really like the way in sounded. Can't wait to hear it after he dresses the frets and sets it "the way he does Gord's" ( at my request.)