GL's guitar's

[eagle670]

I am wanting to get a new guitar and was curious as to what kind or kinds of guitars Gordon plays. Thanks!

[vlmagee]

He has two Gibson B-45s that he uses, tuned and capoed differently. For a 6 string, he has mostly played a Martin D-18 but occasionally - including in 2008 - he has played a Manzer. I had never seen it before, but it is in concert photos from the late 70s and early 80s.

[eagle670]

I had never heard of a Manzer either, so I checked out their website. Wow, they carry a price tag of 20 grand. That's about 19 thousand dollars out of my price range. I will probably go with a Martin of some type, they seem to have the richest sound of any guitar I have tried so far.
If someone has any suggestions on other brands of guitars that you think I should take a look at, please let me know.
Here is what I have played so far.
Taylor, Takamine, Alvarez, Cort, Martin, Washburn, Huss & Dalton

[vlmagee]

I am biased (I have a D-18GL). I don't really play, but I love my guitar. You can see it on the home page of my GL web site at www.gordonlightfoot.com (http://www.gordonlightfoot.com) (scroll down).

If you can spend about $1000, I would suggest a Martin D-15. They are all Mahogany (or Sapele), and aren't very pretty (sort of a chocolate brown affair), but they are worth it. I think they are the best Martin "bargain", with the advantages of a Martin and a wonderful sound at an affordable price. Our own Lightfoot fan friend Cathy Cowette plays one. You can listen to the clips from her CD to hear what it sounds like www.cathycowette.com (http://www.cathycowette.com) (she recorded 6 Lightfoot songs). It still sounds like that, even after a tumble from a float. A crack yes, but the sound is still wonderful. (The guitar in her home page photo is not the Martin, but the rest of the guitar pictures are).

[eagle670]

Thanks for the info. I woudn't mind to have one of those D-18 GL's myself, but they are a little out of my price range. I think that Martin is the way to go though. I have really taken a fancy to the Martin 000-M model. It's not real attractive, but I like the smaller body and it sounds and plays fantastic. I already have a full body guitar, so I think I want to try something a little different.

[vlmagee]

I know a couple of people who have a triple 0 and they love them. You won't regret it, I'm sure!

The D-18GL was limited to 61 guitars and priced at $3500. That was the last limited edition for which they limited the number because they learned their lesson. They could have sold hundreds more! (Dick Boak writes about that in his book). I didn't play at all but I figured that with so few the guitar would go up in value and should I need the money in the future, I could sell at a profit. That has proved to be true. Resales now run in the $4500 to $5000 range, with several far above that! But finding one that is for sale isn't easy, although probably a quarter of them have changed hands.

[fezo]

OOO s are wonderful guitars! Particularly so if you are a finger picker.

My main guitar for years was a Martin M-36 which is like a OOO only even bigger around the bottom. Absolutely great instrument but now I have a few neck issues (my neck - not the guitar's) and a OOO is perfect. I love mine.Mine was made by a friend who is a small time lutheir and makes nice instruments. You won't go wrong with the ones from Martin.

[banjobench12]

The D-18-GL is pricey and hard to find as Valerie noted. However you might consider the regular Martin D-18. I bought one last year for my son and it sounds magnificent. Very bright sound. I actually prefer it to my D-28 which I've had for years............but he won't trade!

[New 12 String Mike]

Eagle,

Are you shopping for a 6 or 12 string?

One thing that nobody's mentioned yet, is that Gord plays dreadnought size guitars. Is that what you are looking for too?

[New 12 String Mike]

Eagle,

Are you shopping for a 6 or 12 string?

One thing that nobody's mentioned yet, is that Gord plays dreadnought size guitars. Is that what you are looking for too?

[eagle670]

I have always played 6 string guitars. However, as I have been trying out different brands, I have picked up a 12 string a couple of times. I might consider a 12 as a 3rd guitar, but I think that I really need to get another 6 right now. I purchased my current guitar about 30 some years ago and though I will never part with it, I think it is time to move up. The brand that I have now is called a Lincoln and when I bought it I remember the guy telling me that it was made by Gibson. I cannot find any info on it at all, so if anyone has ever heard of them I would appreciate any info that you can give me. It was made in Japan and is a beautiful guitar and the craftmanship seems to be of good quality.

Thanks!!

[spocksbrain]

One brand I have not yet seen mentioned is Guild. I play a Guild GAD50, priced at about $1200. They sell for around $750 used, however. They are solid mohogany and have a wonderful sound and great action. I installed a Fishman Matrix II pickup and for my money, it is the best guitar/pickup setup that I have owned. I play it out quite a bit and get plenty of compliments on the looks and the cound. It comes with a tweed case.

Good luck.

[eagle670]

That's one brand that I have'nt played yet. I checked it out on the web and it looks like real good guitar. What do you think of the Guild GAD-50PCE model. It is their acoustic electric. It contains the Fishman Acoustic Matrix Natural I Under Saddle Pickup, which I know nothing about.

[Unsettled 1]

Guild still makes excellent guitars, but alas, like so many things, not like they once did. That being said, even their Chinese made guitars can be a good bargain. Gibson and Guild are my personal favorites. I live 2 miles from the Taylor factory, and they are everywhere. Maybe it's me, but I don't find them as rich. The important thing is to play several guitars of the models you like. When you pick up the right one, you'll know it.

[lighthead2toe]

My kind of topic guys and I hope I can provide some help.

From the first time I heard Gordon Lightfoot strum out that intro to "Early Morning Rain" on his Gibson B45 12 string I was sold on those guitars. To me there's nothing can capture that sound and I can listen to it over and over as is with the intro to "The Canadian Railroad Trilogy."

That sound was created with his tool of trade and it's the Gibson B45 that does it with the ultimate of effectiveness and brings it out like no other 12 string guitar sound could capture.

It took me a long time and with heart rendering research to find them but I am very lucky to have two, and they are my babies, and if at all possible they travel with me.

Going to music stores, pawn shops, or any place where guitars are available for playing and just hanging out is one of my favorite things to do and that gives many opportunities to hear lots of quality instruments.

To find a Gibson B45 of any quality to speak of in a store would be a real stroke of luck. You'd probably have better luck at a garage sale.

From what I have discovered many of them did not not turn out that well and I turned down a few even when I started out looking back in the 70's in Toronto, so be careful if you see one that might look like nice as the sound might not be what you'd expect.

When these topics come up I tend to get lost in them and it sometimes becomes necessary for the stop sign to go out, so I'll round it out by saying that if ever my B45s should for whatever reason be no longer available, I would, and recommend to eagle 670 that you try the "Larrivee" 12 string. It would be my choice.
That guitar produces a very beautiful sound. Rich and quite unique and the price is reasonable enough.

I also love the "Guild," which was the fav of John Denver.

I would also like to mention that the " Fishman Matrix Natural II is the one that I have installed in my Martin D18, and from what I gather it's also the same one that Gord has in his D18. (got a hot tip on that one)
Cheers, Ron J.

[New 12 String Mike]

Eagle,

OK, a 6, so that takes care of a B45 hunt.

I'm most familiar with Martins, so I'll list a few choices here.

First, if you want to go Martin, you have to be set to pay into the thousands to get one... mostly. A D-18, Gord's current guitar, in standard will cost just to the low side of $2000. A standard D-28, which he played for years, and what I play now, will be slightly higher than the 18. Of course, you can go crazy with the Marquis, Vintage and Golden Era D-18s/D-28s too and the prices will climb way up there fast.

Val mentioned the D-15. Good sound, no much to look at, costs will be under $1000. The D-16 series is one I'd look to. They have spruce tops, with hog or rosewood backs and sides. They make a very good choice. Then there's the Road and DX series Martins. Look at these real close. They have laminate woods, so they god for $500 and under, but still have the Martin sound.

As always, each person must go for what touches him. But that's a thumbnail look at Martin dreds.

Good luck.

[New 12 String Mike]

Eagle,

OK, a 6, so that takes care of a B45 hunt.

I'm most familiar with Martins, so I'll list a few choices here.

First, if you want to go Martin, you have to be set to pay into the thousands to get one... mostly. A D-18, Gord's current guitar, in standard will cost just to the low side of $2000. A standard D-28, which he played for years, and what I play now, will be slightly higher than the 18. Of course, you can go crazy with the Marquis, Vintage and Golden Era D-18s/D-28s too and the prices will climb way up there fast.

Val mentioned the D-15. Good sound, no much to look at, costs will be under $1000. The D-16 series is one I'd look to. They have spruce tops, with hog or rosewood backs and sides. They make a very good choice. Then there's the Road and DX series Martins. Look at these real close. They have laminate woods, so they god for $500 and under, but still have the Martin sound.

As always, each person must go for what touches him. But that's a thumbnail look at Martin dreds.

Good luck.

[eagle670]

Great advice guy's. I appreciate the help. I find that the more I go into music shops, the more confused I become. I have always found that referrals are the best way to go when you can't decide on something. A lot of the kids that work in these shops, don't even know what an good acoustic looks or sounds like like. I am really suprised with the quality of the instruments out there. Some of them do not hold a candle to my old Lincoln model, as far as craftsmanship, that I paid 300 bucks for in the 70's. Anyway I will continue my search. Thanks again for the feedback!

[fezo]

Now just to confuse things I will say that Ovations kind of did the reverse thing on me which is to say I liked them back a ways but not so much now unless it's an acoustic-electric that you're plugging in. They sound great out in a crowd.

The advice you are getting in here is great. Don't worry about the confusion. So many guitars... So little time....

I'm with Pam. On e of these days you are going to pick one up and you are not going to be able to put it down. My Martin M was like that. It still is but I can only play it standing up which is why I ended up with a OOO in addition.

As was pointed out Gord plays a dreadnaught so if that's the sound you are looking for a D-18 or a D-28 will make you very happy. One over the other is simply a matter of taste. The 18 has mahogany back and sides vs rosewood for the 28. The former will give you a slightly brighter sound while the latter will give you a bit warmer sound. Trust your ears.

My first Martin was a D-35. I bought it at a store that had a total of four in stock. I made them take all of them - including the two that were still in plastic wrap in their cases. They hadn't been opened since shipping from the factory. I played them until one said "buy me!" I had it about 10 years and only sold it because I needed the money for for the M-36.

Why is it that Guild keeps moving (part of it is they get bought by other companies. They were in New Jersey, then Rhode Island, then in teh old Ovation factory in Connecticut and now are in the Takoma factory in Washington. The guy that played dobro on my CD worked for Guild in New Jersey when he was a young dude.

[spocksbrain]

Hi again Eagle,

The Fishmans are great pickups. Terry Clements and Gordon both use them and mix them with a mic on stage. Combine that with the rich sound of the Guild, and I say it's a good combination.

As for Taylors, I have owned one. I don't particularly care for a couple of things about them. All the Taylors that I have played sound thin to me. They come in many different price ranges, but I'd say that other brands, even some Epiphones, have a richer tone. I also do not like Taylor pickups. They are generally transducers and the upper end is not satisfying. John Fogerty is the Taylor posterboy these days, and his sound good on stage. However, I would venture to guess that his models have Fishman pickups.

My fincee' owns an original Gibson J-50 from the late 60s. It is a beautiful guitar and sounds amazing. One thing about guitars is that, if the wood is solid and good, the sound will improve with age. So will the price. Hers cost about $200 when her dad bought it. It is now worth about $3000.

I hope you have some good luck. People on this forum seem to know their guitars and give some good advice. However, I will say, don't go for a Martin just because good ole GL plays one. His instrument is probably up there in the $3000 range. Affordable Martins these days have dropped in quality. Many of them have laminate back and sides. It is a shame, but to sell more instruments, many manufacturers have dropped the quality and opened shops overseas. Even the Guild I have is made in China. Alas, American ingenuity sold to the overseas markets. Oh well.

Happy playing!

[fezo]

Good advice there! You do pay something extra for the Martin name.

You absolutely want solid wood and not laminates - especially for the top for exactly the reasons spocksbrain just pointed out. Also if you want a guitar that will sound better and better over the years don't go for a cedar top. They pretty much sound what they are going to sound like right out of the box. I have one and it's nice but it won't change. The one other tidbit on that is that even a nice spruce top doesn't age magically by itself - you have to play it. I don't expect that will be a problem!

Taylors - yeah, their weak point would be a bit of a thin sound which works on some thing better than others. Generally nice fingerpickers but not so much bass in the strumming. Their strong point would be the wonderful neck and fingerboard. They are very easy to play.

[eagle670]

You guys are great! I really appreciate all the feedback. I started learning "Circle of Steel" last night and the fingering on that song has some real difficult parts. I really think that I need to get something with a smaller neck, because my fingers are not very long. So if anyone can tell me what brands have the smaller neck size, it would help me out alot.
I don't know if any of you know a guy named Pete Huttlinger, but he has some excellent guitar lesson dvd's. Pete is the national finger picking champion and used to play with John Denver. I purchased 3 of his lessons, with one being "The Songs of Gordon Lightfoot". Pete teaches the exact picking patterns of GL and also arranges the music to include lead guitar parts. I just started last night, but it is excellent. Just thought I would pass that along to my fellow guitarists.

[fezo]

Oh, Circle of Steel will give your fingers a good work out.

Someone will chime in on the smaller neck issue. Taylors generally fill that bill. Some Gibsons and even Martin since they gave up the "you don't need a truss rod" argument. I haven't owned a Martin with a truss rod but I've played a few and they have much easier necks these days.

[eagle670]

Circle of Steel is probably #2 on my fav list. I would really like to learn how to play "Affair on 8th Avenue". It has some really nice melodies in it. I have the tab, but the picking pattern is what I have trouble detecting. Maybe someone has already figured that out and would like to share the info.

[fezo]

You like challenges!

I'm strictly a figure it out by ear guy and as a result the way I do anything is pretty quirky.

So far Affair on 8th Avenue isn't one I've done.

It was in here somewhere that I learned that properly played Don Quixote is in A capoed up two. I've always played itt in G capoed up 4. I taught that to myself the night my oldest daughter was born and I couldn't get to sleep. Too late to change now....

[New 12 String Mike]

I'd have to disagree that Martin laminate guitars are of lesser quality. Lesser grade materials, sure, but the quality is still there. I too played an Ovation, in my case for 30 years.

Then after all that time, I played a Martin DXM. The DXM is a Martin HPL all laminate guitar. The "wood grain" is counter top photos. Didn't matter. After Ovation, owning a synthetic guitar wasn't a problem. Regardless... the sound was there. My DXM isn't my D-28, but then it only cost a couple hundred dollars.. The sound is excellent. It IS a Martin. These guitars allow players without lots of money to own and play a Martin guitar if they want to. They work.

They may not be to everyone's taste, and that's OK. If you don't want to play laminates, only play solid wood, sure. A good laminate is still a good guitar.

[fezo]

Well, my point was more that laminates don't age. Neither does cedar. If you like the sound of it when new and are OK with the fact that it won't change over the years you're in! This is about the tops really. The backs and sides aren't as important.

I have a guitar with a laminate top in the house - an old Yamaha. I also have a OO with a cedar top. They are fine. Just different things.

Last night I was out seeing Rodney Crowell and his lead player, Will Kimbrough, was playing one of those old Yamahas. I got to talk to him for a minute afterward. He normally plays a D-18 but the airline cracked the side so he went into emergency mode. It sounded fine.

You'll certainly never find one guitar where everyone agrees that this is the best.

Gordon who is set on that one model 12 string is an exception for the most part.

[podunklander]

I'd have to disagree that Martin laminate guitars are of lesser quality. Lesser grade materials, sure, but the quality is still there. I too played an Ovation, in my case for 30 years.

Then after all that time, I played a Martin DXM. The DXM is a Martin HPL all laminate guitar. The "wood grain" is counter top photos. Didn't matter. After Ovation, owning a synthetic guitar wasn't a problem. Regardless... the sound was there. My DXM isn't my D-28, but then it only cost a couple hundred dollars.. The sound is excellent. It IS a Martin. These guitars allow players without lots of money to own and play a Martin guitar if they want to. They work.

They may not be to everyone's taste, and that's OK. If you don't want to play laminates, only play solid wood, sure. A good laminate is still a good guitar.

lol that's what I feel/say about my Goya G-125...It IS a Martin :). I don't know too much about classical guitars -but I just love the mellow tone on this one. And I did write one song using it. I've held on to it now -thinking to use it as a trade-in but the value is too low to consider this. This is an under-valued, under-rated guitar from what I've read up on it. yeah it has all the cheap (plastic tuning keys even...I've never had a guitar w/those) parts but this hasn't seemed to have any affect on the sound and playability.

[fezo]

Nothing wrong with a Goya! Nice guitars. I don't have any classicals (or any class...) but I've played ones belonging to other folks. Nice stuff.

As far as undervalued I'd like to buy undervalued and sell overvalued but it never works out taht way. Actually I seldom sell. I have an old Guild bass that I've had for 35 years! And I still have the little Gibson LG-1 that I got in 1965!

One thing that makes me kind of drool at the moment is a Gibson Advanced Jumbo. Very pretty guitar.

[RM]

Speaking of guitars.........

What method(s) do you guys use to introduce some humidity into your instruments ?

[DawnsMinstrel]

I bought some gadgets that are designed specifically for this purpose a while ago after my DCX-1E developed a crack right down the middle of the sound board. They're these little sacs made out of a material that looks like felt and they have a cap on them which one unscrews. Then you fill the sac up with water cap it, and leave the whole thing in the case with the guitar. Water evidently slowly seeps through the sac at a rate that keeps the environment inside the case sufficiently moist. It really does seem to work and I do find that they have to be refilled regularly during winter time.

Actually, here's a link to the gadget I use - at least I think this is it:

http://accessories.musiciansfriend.com/product/Oasis-OH1-Original-Guitar-Humidifier?sku=421665

-DM

[podunklander]

Speaking of guitars.........

What method(s) do you guys use to introduce some humidity into your instruments ?

I've never had to in NE - just maintain relative temp/humidity which is easy to do here.

[JohninCt.]

I used to have an old 1960 Goya back in the Folk era 60's. It was a F19 model which one of the guys in Peter Paul and Mary played. It was made so you could use either steel strings or nylons. Had wonderful sound. I had it in the Army in 64-67 and it used to put guys to sleep when I played it. It got stolen when they broke into my car in Houston,Texas in 1969 along with a Teardrop Vox electric guitar. That really hurt. I now have a 1969 Martin D-28. and a Martinez nylon string, a 1988 Gibson Les Paul Studio, a Gibson Avenger from 1982 I think, a Gibson ES 225, and a Ovation Balladeer from some time back in the 70's, and a privately made Telecaster using Fender pickups and gold trim with some nice body parts that I am not sure who made them, I bought it cheap from a guy who used to own a music store and built it for himself, plays nice and sounds nice. Most just sit in cases and I hardly ever play anything any more, the only 2 which are strung is the nylon Martinez and the Telecaster copy. Just have basicly lost interest. Never was that much of a player any way. I remember when Gordon and Terry got those expensive guitars, as I had asked Terry about them when I seen it up close. They looked pretty much like a Martin if I remember them right. They did sound excellent though.

[eagle670]

Well I just thought I would give you all an update on my guitar search. I had an original price range of about $700.00, but after seeing some of the quality offered for that amount, I have decided to shoot a little higher. There is a chance that I could get a Huss & Dalton or possibly a Bourgeois. Understand that I have not even picked up one of the guitars, because the prices start out around $3000.00. However an opportunity has come about where I might be able to get one around the $1500 mark. Has anyone had any experience with these?? I probably won't get a chance to be able to afford a hand crafted guitar like this again, so if this comes about I am going to jump on it. I am sure that I could get my money out of it if it does not fit my playing style.

[RM]

Actually, here's a link to the gadget I use
-DM

Thanks for the info. I'm gonna give it a shot. The last time I had my guitar in for a check-up I was told it was pretty dry.

[podunklander]

Thanks for the info. I'm gonna give it a shot. The last time I had my guitar in for a check-up I was told it was pretty dry.

yeah, that can happen out in your neck of the woods :rolleyes:

[DawnsMinstrel]

Hi Ron, it's worth a shot for sure. They do seem to work pretty well. The reason I wound up getting one was because of what happened with the DCX-1E so I maybe I'll take this opportunity to add my opinion regarding the question of quality of lower end martins.

Here's my story:

I was looking for a cutaway electro-acoustic that was in the 500-800 price range. The DCX-1E really impressed me. Somehow, in spite of being a laminate it really sounded nice and played well. Very easy to finger. So I picked one up for $600. Within 5 months it had developed a crack right down the middle of the sound board starting at the saddle and going all the way down.

This guitar lived in the same place as my almost 30 year-old D-35 which has endured much harsher conditions without a single crack. I took the guitar back to where I'd purchased it and was told that the warranty didn't cover the damage because it was due to my negligence letting it get too dry. They wanted $190 to fix it so I walked out of the store vowing never to buy anything there again.

I contacted Martin directly and got no response at all one way or the other. So I took it to a local Luthier who told me that the guitar was made almost entirely out of formica-only the soundboard is actually solid wood, and that the bracing on the sound board was also not up to Martin's standards for their higher end models. He fixed the crack for 50 bucks.

Someone else told me that the reason the DCX-1E cracked and the D-35 hasn't probably has to do with the fact that the wood used for newer guitars isn't as thoroughly dried before use. The luthier told me this was probably BS but I don't know who to believe.

Anyway, in the end, if I was told to keep it well humidified when I bought it (I don't remember but it's not as if I didn't know this) it's technically my fault that this happened. It's just that it was a shock after so many years without problems with the D-35, and with Martin not even responding to my inquiry.

So to those who say that the DX-martins are of good quality, I have to disagree based on what the luthier told me and my experience. They are not "real" Martins. They are not manufactured in the same way or using the same materials and standards of construction as are used at the factory. They are mass-produced and stamped with Martin's name and that's about it. I don't know if I'll even buy a Martin again after not even getting a response out of them when I contacted them.

Fingerstyle guitarists should check out Breedlove and Lowden. But be prepared to spend some money.

-DM

[podunklander]

I used to have an old 1960 Goya back in the Folk era 60's. It was a F19 model which one of the guys in Peter Paul and Mary played. It was made so you could use either steel strings or nylons. Had wonderful sound. I had it in the Army in 64-67 and it used to put guys to sleep when I played it. It got stolen when they broke into my car in Houston,Texas in 1969 along with a Teardrop Vox electric guitar. That really hurt. I now have a 1969 Martin D-28. and a Martinez nylon string, a 1988 Gibson Les Paul Studio, a Gibson Avenger from 1982 I think, a Gibson ES 225, and a Ovation Balladeer from some time back in the 70's, and a privately made Telecaster using Fender pickups and gold trim with some nice body parts that I am not sure who made them, I bought it cheap from a guy who used to own a music store and built it for himself, plays nice and sounds nice. Most just sit in cases and I hardly ever play anything any more, the only 2 which are strung is the nylon Martinez and the Telecaster copy. Just have basicly lost interest. Never was that much of a player any way. I remember when Gordon and Terry got those expensive guitars, as I had asked Terry about them when I seen it up close. They looked pretty much like a Martin if I remember them right. They did sound excellent though.

Nice collection of vintage guitars! Sorry about your Goya and Vox:(. Sounds like you put the Goya to good use the several years you had it. I know I would have been crushed if any of my guitars had been stolen.

I would like to have an older Goya someday -the serial# on mine is high and I'd guess it's among the last that were made. I know they were common and inexpensive but I feel there's something magical about a Goya. Liona Boyd's 1st guitar was a Goya...and Stevie Nicks was too. Stevie wrote a song the 1st day she got hers. I had mine for a couple of months before I spent any time on it and I guess that 1st day -is when I wrote a song. I hadn't written anything in years!

Martinez..I remember those! Haven't seen or heard of one in years. Sorry to know you've lost interest in playing though. I'm not much of a player either and hadn't spent much time playing at all during the past decade (even went 4-5 years without a guitar) until last winter. I'm playing differently now and I've gotten a little better. Before, I felt like I had plateaued -didn't think my playing could progress.

I hope you can pick up playing again! I've been unemployed nearly 1/2 the time during the past few years so I've had the benefit of having some free time to pick up playing again.

[vlmagee]

RM, you don't have to buy anything. For my precious Martin D-18GL, I used one of the tried and true solutions - made a bit more difficult in these days of digital cameras, however. If you have a film camera and some film canisters, you are all set. If not, plastic soap dishes will work too. Punch a few holes in the top (I usually punch 3), and insert a wet piece of sponge. Bingo! Works like a charm. Obviously, be sure that your arrangement doesn't leak water on your guitar. In a dry climate, check the sponges every few days so you know how often to wet them. I use 3 canisters in my case, at the headstock end. This was adequate in Colorado too, where dryness is a problem, although my guitar was then almost 3 years old. The greatest danger of dryness-related damage is in the first 2 to 3 years when the wood is still drying naturally, and is therefore more susceptible to extremes. (Of course, this solution assumes that you keep your guitar in a case when you aren't playing it).

I just started playing again (well, okay, I played 4 or 5 times in the same month), and took my guitar in for a check-up after a guitar playing friend (singer/songwriter Michael Jerling) said that the action seemed too high for fingerpicking. My guitar was originally set up for fingerpicking, and the action was wonderful, but after not playing for so long I couldn't judge it myself. I went back to my Martin-authorized repair tech and he adjusted the truss rod, and did actually file the saddle a bit (without taking the strings off!). What a difference it made! No dryness issues at all.

For this professional service, I was charged the lofty sum of $25 ...

[RM]

RM, you don't have to buy anything.

Too late.....I already ordered one. But I find the film canisters ( yes I have some hanging around. Why ? I don't know) option interesting. I will remember that tip.

[DawnsMinstrel]

Not your fault DM!!! In my opinion, there was an existing stress-related issue with your Martin unless it had been exposed to extreme heat and or humidity, etc. And there may have already been a hairline fracture that may not have been noticable.


Thanks Pam. I really don't think I exposed it to any extremes nor did it go from a humid to a dry environment quickly. It was gradual with the changing of the seasons and as I said before my, D-35 has endured nearly 30 such gradual changes in humidity without cracking. But my townhouse does get dry in winter because of the type of heating I have here.

When I said that it was "technically my fault" what I mean is that I couldn't honestly say that I hadn't been warned to keep the guitar in an environment of relatively constant humidity. In other words, the store and the maker felt that they had adequately covered their collective a**es. Hence my vow never to go to that store again and my heartache over the Martin Guitar Company's evident lack of sympathy.

I still love the Martin sound, though I prefer the D-28 to my own D-35. (I bought the 35 at a time when my ear was not as discerning as it is now.) So it's difficult for me to say I'll never buy another Martin, but since I'm about 80% fingerstylist, I have a lot of options other than Martin, and I'm not likely to get another one unless I get serious about bluegrass.

best wishes,

Tim

[fezo]

I don't do too much in the humidity department but I do use these at times - http://www.activemusician.com/item--MC.GRDAMPIT?ref=yh&ovchn=YAH&ovtac=CMP&ovcpn=Guitar+%3E+Accessories+%3E+Care+%26+Maintena nce&ovcrn=Dampit+Guitar+Humidifier

[podunklander]

Seems to be quite a bit of myths and misconceptions here so I found some professional links to technical leaflets...including one from the Canadian Conservation Institute...which is one of the tops in the field:


http://www.music.ed.ac.uk/euchmi/cimcim/iht/iht.html
http://www.mnhs.org/about/publications/techtalk/techtalkjuly2001.pdf

[JohninCt.]

Nice collection of vintage guitars! Sorry about your Goya and Vox:(. Sounds like you put the Goya to good use the several years you had it. I know I would have been crushed if any of my guitars had been stolen.

I would like to have an older Goya someday -the serial# on mine is high and I'd guess it's among the last that were made. I know they were common and inexpensive but I feel there's something magical about a Goya. Liona Boyd's 1st guitar was a Goya...and Stevie Nicks was too. Stevie wrote a song the 1st day she got hers. I had mine for a couple of months before I spent any time on it and I guess that 1st day -is when I wrote a song. I hadn't written anything in years!

Martinez..I remember those! Haven't seen or heard of one in years. Sorry to know you've lost interest in playing though. I'm not much of a player either and hadn't spent much time playing at all during the past decade (even went 4-5 years without a guitar) until last winter. I'm playing differently now and I've gotten a little better. Before, I felt like I had plateaued -didn't think my playing could progress.

I hope you can pick up playing again! I've been unemployed nearly 1/2 the time during the past few years so I've had the benefit of having some free time to pick up playing again.

When I bought my Goya, I had gone to NYC, on 49th street there were lots of music stores and I bought it there. from Terminal Music. It wasn't cheap back in those 1960 days, I think it cost me almost $300. I never bought another Goya after that, tried some but they never had it. I have had 50+ guitars thru my life, some great, some just fun to play. Many Yamahas, in the beginnings they were a pretty good guitar for the price, the old red labels models, especially the 140s, back in the late 60's thru late 1970's, I used to have one in the back of my car most the time. The Martinez is one of the best nylons I have ever owned for the sound and playability of it, it might be an exceptional one. I never had a Yamaha or any other nylon (except my old Goya) which played as sweet. I have had all kinds of Fender electrics and acoustics, I even had a Princess, which was a pink Fender with one pickup, made for girls, a collectors item now. Always wanted a Gibson ES350 (like Chuck Berrys) but never got one. My biggest screwup was passing on a $140 nylon string guitar in the early 70s, which I didn't know the name of at the time, too busy having fun and not doing my homework. It was a mint Ramirez classic. I didn't look it up till months later and found out it was worth about $800. Probably the worst (besides Stellas)I ever had was the nylons made over in Mexico, sold just over the border areas, they sound ok for a while but only last about 6 months, they used to cost around $15-20. I had a nice sounding Taylor about 20 years ago, but I always thought the neck was so thin that they wouldn't last thru the years, so I sold it. I play only once in a while as I say, but I forgot more than I can ever get back again. I play my drums once in a while also, and notice the age has taken it's toll on speed and rolls. No complaints though, it has all been fun and hope it continues for more years. The many times I played with friends in pleasant surroundings like the great outdoors, makes for lots of great memories. I think that is what it is all about for most of us.

[eagle670]

Have you had any experiences with Huss & Dalton or Bourgeois guitars.
Thanks

[podunklander]

Have you had any experiences with Huss & Dalton or Bourgeois guitars.
Thanks

nope but I checked out the websites. $$$ guitars!!! Especially the latter -for which I didn't see any cutaways, but they have a slightly smalled nut size than the Huss & Dalton.

I was also looking at the Parker website -I've played a couple but the neck was too wide and I didn't care for the action.

I emailed a friend today about the Ovation custom legend but forgot the Kaman division she works for is now owned by Fender :(.

For the Huss & Dalton and Bourgeois...are there any dealers nearby where you are? That's one of my problems trying out these guitars but if you're looking at these more $$$ ones -perhaps they can ship you one to try?

2 more weeks and I'll be checking out guitars again :).

[charlene]

Liona Boyd has a guitar for sale:
http://www.classicalguitar.com/guitarsforsale.php

[fezo]

Yeah, back then those were the REAL Goyas. They were rich for my blood especially considering I was a steel string guy.

If you want to spend serious money on a guitar there is certainly no shortage of folks making them. I've played a couple of Collings that I really liked but you could buy a decent used car for what you pay for one.

[JohninCt.]

whoa I didn't know the Goya cost so much back then -though that may depend on the model, etc. You've had some great guitars WOW. aw the Ramirez!!! damn!! Jose III, I assume it was a modern Ramirez?

gee I've only ever owned 5 or 6 guitars. I had the 3 new one's for awhile. The Ibanez that I'm always *itching about is the 1st used guitar I ever owned.

Sad thing, I was at an auction the other day and they had an older Ovation, and the bridge had pulled right up through the wood, it was still hanging on but the bridge was at a 45 degree angle, unfixable.
The Ramirez that I goofed on was in 1974 or 75, it was like new, so I don't think you would consider that modern. At the time I was into electric guitars, and from the same guy I had bought a 1969 Thinline Telecaster which was the one with the hollow body only made for 2 years. I only paid $175 for it with the case, which was a good deal, I sold it in 1994 for $1000 to a guy in a country band in NYC. Probably worth double+ that now. It had an excellent neck, but like most Teles was a bit weak on the low end of sound range, but it had a biting high end.
Yes, early nylon Goyas were in the upper class of guitars, about equal to Martins. About the early 1970s, they fell to Yamaha or worse status. I bought mostly used guitars, new is too much like a buying a car, take it out of the dealers and you just lost 1/3 or more of value, unless you hold on to them for many years and they become collectables. I have had Ibanez in both electric and hollows, but always steel strung models. I have always found them to be very playable but with some stiffness to thier sound, or not a lot of resonance to the wood. They always seemed heavier and with slightly thicker tops. Much like Albanez guitars. I guess it is just like any brand and you shop till you get one you like the feel and sound of.
I wonder what Gordons first few guitars were. They probably were secondary models also.

[podunklander]

Good question, John (what Gordons 1st few guitars were).

I'm glad I have the Goya these days because I don't think I can play the Ibanez right now (I haven't tried though). I put light gauge, brass wound strings on a couple of weeks ago and didn't like the sound ...and the brass-wound did a number on my fingertips :(. I don't even think I'll ever play the Ibanez again and just going to wait until I can get another guitar.

[JohninCt.]

Good question, John (what Gordons 1st few guitars were).

I'm glad I have the Goya these days because I don't think I can play the Ibanez right now (I haven't tried though). I put light gauge, brass wound strings on a couple of weeks ago and didn't like the sound ...and the brass-wound did a number on my fingertips :(. I don't even think I'll ever play the Ibanez again and just going to wait until I can get another guitar.

It takes some time to build up callouses on you fingers and with steel strings you need them or the pain will come. I don't have callouses anymore either, so another reason for the slack of playing nowadays. Once in a while I do pick up the Martinez with the nylon strings, always good to have a nylon around to keep the mind and fingers active. I must admit, I don't know the situation on the quality of the Goyas after 1990, so I hope and expect they are decent in playing and sound quality. I do remember they went downhill when they left Sweden, but where are they made now? What do you think of yours?

[JohninCt.]

I'll take a photo of the Goya to post here -maybe even video a demo of me playing it..once I finish some 'must-complete before the end of the weekend', tasks at hand. It needs to be re-strung though and I've never strung this type of guitar before. I did manage the high E though, however I did it, seems to have worked. I think I still have the rest of the strings from that set.

Martin acquired the Goya from Levin in the mid-late 70's. I don't know when they actually started manufacturing them (in Korea) but they stopped in 1995. The # on my G 125 is: 9204000055 and I have yet to find the date of manufacture for that serial#. But I think it's from the tail end based on serial#'s I've come across on other Martin Goyas from the 90's.

I bought the guitar to re-sell...never intended to keep/play it. As I've noted (ok, complained :rolleyes:) in posts here -I have small hands, short fingers and struggle with wide necks. Anyway, it was sitting in my friend's antique store down at the shore ($160) and was taking a beating from people trying it out...which I can't tolerate seeing happen with any guitar so I took it home.

After about a month, I decided to try to play it one day and within minutes...I had 'written' an instrumental. I have no experience playing a classical guitar (though I've been meaning to sit down and learn some Rachmaninoff) and I really don't have anything to compare it to. It doesn't have the crisp yet still warm tone as would be favored by Liona Boyd -but I'm not about to compare a Goya to a Rubio.

I have decent callouses but switched from silk&steel to brasswound on the Ibanez and OUCH. I wanted to try the brass ot see if it would make a difference. Anyway, some discussions on this board awhile back helped me to locate the buzzing problem (B-string, I found the groove on the nut is too deep...and also, discovered poor-fitting pegs when I recently re-strung).

The silk & steel strings (I use Martin, only) have spoiled me. They are much smoother to run fingertips across/over and have a more crisp and obviously less-brassy sound than brasswound strings (even light gauge).

oh lol anyway...the Goya is what is is -best I can respond to what you have asked. It's cheap, but playable/passable?

What do you play when you pick up the Martinez? ok I best get back to my Turbo-taxing :eek:

If the Goya is playable and passable then it must be good. I had a Suzuki nylon a couple years ago that had such a wide neck that I could barely play it, I don't have big hands either. Needless to say, I sold it. I play along with some songs, but just chording nowadays. Like I say not much interest or time for it anymore. I used to use Silk and Steel strings sometimes. I liked them on most of the guitars I've had. The last few times I had strung any, I used light Martin Marquis, mainly because that is what I had in my draw at the time. Well, keep plucking, sounds like you are doing ok and really into it, that's when progress is made.
I guess I'll do my taxes this coming week. Good luck on yours, hope you get enough back to buy a Martin.

[podunklander]

If the Goya is playable and passable then it must be good. I had a Suzuki nylon a couple years ago that had such a wide neck that I could barely play it, I don't have big hands either. Needless to say, I sold it. I play along with some songs, but just chording nowadays. Like I say not much interest or time for it anymore. I used to use Silk and Steel strings sometimes. I liked them on most of the guitars I've had. The last few times I had strung any, I used light Martin Marquis, mainly because that is what I had in my draw at the time. Well, keep plucking, sounds like you are doing ok and really into it, that's when progress is made.
I guess I'll do my taxes this coming week. Good luck on yours, hope you get enough back to buy a Martin.

I have Martin Marquis lights on the Ibanez right now (the strings that hurt my fingertips :(). yeah, I feel like I'm making some progress the past year though the issues with my hands slowed this down. I can only play just a little bit everyday now -better than nothing! oh I forgot -I had a professional opinion about the playability of the Goya...that it was good for strumming, but I like it for picking.

So far I have an offset on my Fed. taxes...my college student saved me there ;)

[JohninCt.]

Did a quick vid but thumbs were a'hurtin' :(. So ya know - this ain't perfect. On the Goya I picked a few from my own songs and then a little of Wayfaring Stranger..which I was just learning before the thumb surgery. Then I switched to the Ibanez so I could try a few bars of CRT and that was a disaster! Sorry! If you could see my face - I was mouthing some swear words and quite angry because of the buzzing...which can be heard. I think I can do a little adjustment to make that better but I just need a guitar I can actually play!!!

This is on the open mic youtube channel so I don't want to keep it on there for too long.

YouTube - Pam picking/strumming samples (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXhbNZPTxmI&feature=channel_page)


Well that is pretty good. I understand about the thumb problem, but you seem to be doing fine. The Goya sounds decent and you don't seem to have any problem with the neck, so I would pick away at it too. You are making good and fast chord changes so no problem there either. On the buzzing of the Ibanez on the bass strings, if you raise up the nut on the neck, you might stop some of the buzz, but it might make playing it a little harder. It might be worth a try if you just stick a thin piece of wood under part of the nut, just under the E to D strings, to raise it only about 1/16" and it might help. Most nuts now are plastic or some other man made material, and they will bend just enough to keep the thin strings in the same place while raising the thick strings. The other thing is if the strings are new, they will tend to buzz more than on older set. Once they stretch out they may slack off buzzing a little. Also next time you try some new strings, try a different brand. Some times other brands work better than the most famous names. Nothing can slow a player down more than being dissatisified with their guitar. The Ibanez sounds like a typical Ibanez and their models with the cutaway usually don't have a strong bottom end. If you could find a reasonable priced and decent Yamaha/Ovation Applause or most anything with a non cutaway body, I think you will get better sound. I don't know if they have Pawn shops in your area, but keep a watch on them if so. The traditional full body usually sounds better in even the cheaper guitars. How long before your thumb is back to normal?

[fezo]

Hey, Pam! I can't believe your thumbs are up to that already! That was terrific.

the Goya sounds nice. The Ibanez indeed sounds like an Ibanez. That's not a bad thing - just a matter of what sound you want.

I'm all for trying brands and gauges of strings and seeing what yo like. I settled on D'addario phosphur bronze myself. almost always light gauge but sometimes medium.

[podunklander]

Well that is pretty good. I understand about the thumb problem, but you seem to be doing fine. The Goya sounds decent and you don't seem to have any problem with the neck, so I would pick away at it too. You are making good and fast chord changes so no problem there either. On the buzzing of the Ibanez on the bass strings, if you raise up the nut on the neck, you might stop some of the buzz, but it might make playing it a little harder. It might be worth a try if you just stick a thin piece of wood under part of the nut, just under the E to D strings, to raise it only about 1/16" and it might help. Most nuts now are plastic or some other man made material, and they will bend just enough to keep the thin strings in the same place while raising the thick strings. The other thing is if the strings are new, they will tend to buzz more than on older set. Once they stretch out they may slack off buzzing a little. Also next time you try some new strings, try a different brand. Some times other brands work better than the most famous names. Nothing can slow a player down more than being dissatisified with their guitar. The Ibanez sounds like a typical Ibanez and their models with the cutaway usually don't have a strong bottom end. If you could find a reasonable priced and decent Yamaha/Ovation Applause or most anything with a non cutaway body, I think you will get better sound. I don't know if they have Pawn shops in your area, but keep a watch on them if so. The traditional full body usually sounds better in even the cheaper guitars. How long before your thumb is back to normal?


Thanks John though oooh I can barely manage the neck on the Goya and deadened/buzzed plenty there. If you noticed the poor positioning of my left (well, right too but wanted to show the picking) because I can't curve/cup with my thumbs just yet. Stitches are coming out in an hour :). It's supposed to be about 3 weeks for recovery and I'm at 10 days.

I recently discovered the buzzing on the low E (mainly) is the saddle rather than the nut. The buzzing was coming from the B-string until I flip-flopped the saddle when I re-strung. Just wanted to experiment with that and it reversed the problem so I just need to lower the saddle for my bass strings.

I thought the issue was with the nut. I had the nut worked on and the saddle replaced during a repair -so this was the 1st time I was re-stringing since, and paid more attention to the saddle (something Cathy had suggested awhile back). And that's also when I discovered the poor-fitting pegs that had been replaced during the 'repair'.

I spent HOURS on the internet last week researching guitars and did a search for pawn shops in Connecticut and Mass. Looks like Waterbury is loaded with them.

But 1st I probably should skip over the border to Gordon Music (good name ;)) in Mass probably later this week. They've been around for a long time. Is actually where I learned to pick when I was 16! That's where I bought the Ovation Custom Legend and had really gotten a good deal on it. It was $1k 10 years ago and doubled+ in value since. From what I've checked out on the internet -I'd be really lucky if I found a used one in good condition for $1k now.

[podunklander]

Hey, Pam! I can't believe your thumbs are up to that already! That was terrific.

the Goya sounds nice. The Ibanez indeed sounds like an Ibanez. That's not a bad thing - just a matter of what sound you want.

I'm all for trying brands and gauges of strings and seeing what yo like. I settled on D'addario phosphur bronze myself. almost always light gauge but sometimes medium.

hey thanks, fezo! Believe it or not I'm already doing better than before the surgery :).

[fezo]

"So instead of a guitar I decided to get a new muffler/exhaust"

Tough choice...

[podunklander]

"So instead of a guitar I decided to get a new muffler/exhaust"

Tough choice...

Well one's sounding quite a bit louder than the other right now!

[eagle670]

I think that my search for a new guitar is about over. I am going today to look at a Martin Guitar OMC 16 E. I have checked on Martins web site and it is exactly what I have been looking for. Hopefully it plays as well as it looks. This guitar retails for around 2500 and this individual has it priced at 1600. It is only a few months old. For those of you following my search you know that my orignal budget was around $1000, but I could not find anything in that price range that I liked.
Anyone know anything about this particular guitar??

http://www.martinguitar.com/guitars/choosing/guitars.php?p=m&m=OMC-16E%20Maple

[fezo]

You aren't going to go wrong with that guitar! The OM is essentially a OOO. Sweet. Will finger pick like mad.

With the maple back and sides you will have a brighter sound than you would with rosewood. it's also a very pretty wood.

[eagle670]

So is this a smaller body guitar? I played an 000-m and it was quite a bit smaller than the others. I didn't think that this one was that small.