Jim Croce/Maury Muehleisen - 35 years [Archive]

brink-

10-05-2008, 12:54 PM

On Sept. 20th it was the 35 anniversary of the plane crash that killed Jim Croce and Maury Muehleisen. I found this on the web site for Maury:

My fondest memory of Maury was when he and I recorded the backup harmony parts on "Thursday" during the "I Got A Name" sessions in the summer of 1973. We always sounded great together, but this day was cosmic…and quick. Two takes…one to get the basic background track down and the second to "double" our parts. If you listen closely, you can almost hear us smiling as we nailed the performance supporting Jim's tribute to Gordon Lightfoot. It was a very sweet moment.

Tommy West, Maury's record producer

charlene

10-05-2008, 01:16 PM

my goodness - 35 years have passed..

Here's the lyrics at the Croce site:
http://www.jimcroce.com/lyrics-igotaname.shtml

and a video at youtube:
YouTube - Jim Croce - I Got a Name (1973)

I Got A Name

Like the pine trees linin the windin road
I've got a name, I've got a name
Like the singin bird and the croakin toad
I've got a name, I've got a name
And I carry it with me like my daddy did
But Im livin the dream that he kept hid
Movin me down the highway
Rollin me down the highway
Movin ahead so life wont pass me by

Like the north wind whistlin down the sky
I've got a song, I've got a song
Like the whippoorwill and the babys cry
I've got a song, I've got a song
And I carry it with me and I sing it loud
If it gets me nowhere, Ill go there proud
Movin me down the highway
Rollin me down the highway
Movin ahead so life wont pass me by

And Im gonna go there free
Like the fool I am and I'll always be
Ive got a dream, I've got a dream
They can change their minds but they can't change me

I've got a dream, I've got a dream
Oh, I know I could share it if you want me to
If you're going my way, I'll go with you
Movin me down the highway
Rollin me down the highway
Movin ahead so life wont pass me by

10-05-2008, 01:58 PM

Am I the last one here to learn of the connection between that song and Lightfoot ? I had no idea. And to think I've been carting around that vinyl for 35 years........

Thanks brink-

Jesse Joe

10-05-2008, 02:39 PM

Brilliant entertainers they were !

Dream Street Rose

10-05-2008, 03:17 PM

Am I the last one here to learn of the connection between that song and Lightfoot ? I had no idea. And to think I've been carting around that vinyl for 35 years........

Thanks brink-

No, Ron you are not the last one. :) I thnk I must be the last one. :eek:

DSR

DawnsMinstrel

10-05-2008, 03:37 PM

No, Ron you are not the last one. :) I thnk I must be the last one. :eek:

DSR

Wrong again DSR. It's me :redface:

Tim

teherie

10-05-2008, 04:30 PM

Jim and Maury were a rare combination. Steve Goodman also died 26 years ago last month.

My favorite guitar and bass players and most frequently played CDs are in this order:

1) Gordon Lightfoot and Terry Clements (Lead), Rick Haynes (Bass)
2) Jim Croce and Maury Muehleisen (Lead)
3) Harry Chapin, Doug Walker (Lead), Big John Wallace (Bass)
4) John Denver, Pete Huttlinger (Lead)

I read about a great concert in Detroit back around 1977 with Gord, John Denver, Harry Chapin and James Taylor and Terry was the backing lead guitarist for all four. I would have thought I died and went to heaven if I had seen that live. I have to believe Jim Croce would have been on that bill if he had been alive.

There is a great Jim Croce DVD and if you play the extra features, Randy Newman talks about touring with Jim and Maury as their opening act in Europe and they only had a couple of t-shirts between them and they used to switch shirts throughout the tour.

10-05-2008, 08:05 PM

Am I the last one here to learn of the connection between that song and Lightfoot ? I had no idea. And to think I've been carting around that vinyl for 35 years........

Thanks brink-

no, i think you guys are misinterpreting this tribute...it is the performance and writing style of the song THURSDAY that is paying homage to Lightfoot....when I first toyed with playing that with a friend many, many moons ago we both commented how Gordesque it sounded, check it out

I'd be surprised if you guys dont also think so...what do you think, rm?

YouTube - Jim Croce Thursday

the tempo, the groove, the pickin...can you hear Gord delivering this tune back in his baritone vocal days? I've always loved this song

I would say it resembles many GL tunes at points but Steel Rail Blues is what came to mind initially

anyhow, I could be wrong but I believe I've Got a Name has no connection to Gord at all (but the imagery of the lyrics is in the same league, eh?:) )

btw, that DVD of Croce has some great moments...i believe we had a thread years ago that dissected it ....it has some quality issues here and there and you have to get through the Ingrid interview stuff

A wonderful tribute (in a cover performance kind of way rather than songwriting) to Gord by both Jim and Ingrid is their partial performance of Song for a Winter's Night on their porch....I have never heard it in it's entirety...lovely work by Ingrid on the harmonies

lastly, I would add the combo of Cat Stevens and Alun Davies to the tasty guitar and harmony duos (you could add Bruce Lynch on bass), very much like Croce and Maury

Croce & Lightfoot apparently did some fine house partying together
ahhh, to be a fly on the wall

yes, thanks Deb...what a 'Songbook'-like catalogue that would exist if he were still with us

10-05-2008, 09:02 PM

no, i think you guys are misinterpreting this tribute...it is the performance and writing style of the song THURSDAY that is paying homage to Lightfoot....when I first toyed with playing that with a friend many, many moons ago we both commented how Gordesque it sounded, check it out

I'd be surprised if you guys dont also think so...what do you think, rm?

To be honest, the way the remembrance was worded, I thought "Thursday" was the song he was referring to. But then the moderator chimed in with "I Got A Name". The lyrics fit like a glove. Since they did fit, I couldn't acquit.

I agree the style of "Thursday" has a Lightfoot feel to it. It's one of the reasons that I've carried it around all these years.

10-05-2008, 09:19 PM

Since they did fit, I couldn't acquit.

and neither could this latest jury:)

...Maury's reference is a little ambiguous for sure

I agree, Croce would have rounded off that benefit foursome nicely...some super nice GL fan shared that audio with me and if I can locate it I would be willing to post a few tracks to youtube, temporarily anyhow...I can't find the audio online anywhere and hardcore GL fans should really hear some of these tracks...and only hardcore fans would be able to tolerate the bootleggishness (I checked, yes, it IS a word) of the recording

rm, if yav ever recorded Thursday i would love to hear your take

10-05-2008, 09:27 PM

I gave it a listen (it had been awhile), and jj you are absolutely right.

"Thursday" IS the tribute song.

(Does anyone know the procedure to impeach moderators ?)

10-05-2008, 09:45 PM

you are absolutely right.

i am going to bronze the above text, it moved me to tears

i havent heard that phrase/praise since the day i tied the knot

charlene

10-05-2008, 10:54 PM

You ARE right James..(and Ron..)
it is THURSDAY ..not I Got A Name..

A++ for James Jones.
uses his "spare" time well..

;)

10-05-2008, 11:34 PM

uses his "spare" time well..

lol, hey, get this...harry's (my son) kindergarten teach commented to me after his first two weeks of skool, "he doesn't speak, does he?"...oh well, still waters run deep

ok, in looking for Jim and Ingrid footage I came across a link to Sal Joseph performing Thursday...he is the one who wrote the tune and produced Jim's first album...Thursday was the last song Jim and Maury recorded, it was a week before the crash...(so it's great Deb's post has us paying tribute to the tune 35 years plus 1 week later)

this is a very hard hitting lyric from days gone by:

"I started out pretending that I’d come to mean enough to you
To make you want to change
Then I came to realize that there was just too much of you
You’d have to rearrange"

Sal introduced Jim to Maury (here, read for yourself)...I thought I was a pretty knowledgeble Croce fan, this is all news to me

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=406244

YouTube - Jim Croce 's closest friend : Sal Joseph : piano & voice

phrases much like Jim (or maybe it was the other way 'round)

I did find one of my fave parts of the Croce DVD posted to youtube...it's Jim and Ingrid singing "Spin Spin Spin" (no, it was not a tribute to Gord's "Spin Spin", lol)

see John Stockfish on bass here, shown in the midst of the tune

YouTube - *SPIN,SPIN,SPIN*- JIM AND INGRID CROCE

they are so young, cute and I am guessing, very in love

for further enjoyment you can find other performces from that DVD compilation online, so many of my faves, even BBC recordings (lovers cross, these dreams, the hard way every time, one less set of footsteps, 5 short minutes of lovin done brought me 20 long years in jail...)

havent kept up with what his son is up to musically lately

gee, i feel like sending Sal a get well card...with much thanks

10-06-2008, 08:39 AM

...Maury's reference is a little ambiguous for sure

Just tying a loose end........The remembrance was offered by Tommy West.

10-06-2008, 09:11 AM

Just tying a loose end........The remembrance was offered by Tommy West.

point taken...see how short lived my absolute rightness was, agh

i was mistakenly interpreting the quote as it being Jim and Maury singing the harmonies...ya know, Jim singing harmony to his own lead the way Gord often does/did

regardless, i am glad that last day of recording was cosmic

wish there was a Classic Albums episode dedicated to a Croce album

Suzi

10-06-2008, 09:55 AM

Facets (1966) was Jim's first album. I was under the impression that it was a self-produced album.

Yuri

10-06-2008, 11:01 AM

Jim Croce Signature Epiphone L-00 Guitar ($725)

http://www.elderly.com/vintage/items/20U-11981.htm

10-06-2008, 11:15 AM

Facets (1966) was Jim's first album. I was under the impression that it was a self-produced album.

hi Suzi, no, not self-produced

in the Sal link I provided above it contains this quote:

"Sal and Jim met in college, became best friends, played and sang together and continued that close friendship until the day Jim died in 1973. Sal was Jim's first record producer. He produced "Facets", which is now a collector's item, but the album never received recognition and was only sold locally and given to family and friends. It seemed that Jim's musical career was over - that is, until he met Maury Muehleisen. "

great looking guitar
that's not very expensive as far vintage guitars go, is it?
thanks for the pic, Yuri

charlene

10-06-2008, 11:28 AM

lol, hey, get this...harry's (my son) kindergarten teach commented to me after his first two weeks of skool, "he doesn't speak, does he?"...oh well, still waters run deep

Well when he was here we talked for the whole time while you noodled around on the piano..
;)
He's quite the knowledgable little fellow and not afraid to impart that knowledge!
Does the teacher talk to HIM? Does he speak with his girlfriends?
;)

"I started out pretending that I’d come to mean enough to you
To make you want to change
Then I came to realize that there was just too much of you
You’d have to rearrange"

wow -
been there .. done that...
must have been delusional..fer sure eh?
lol

Yuri

10-06-2008, 11:41 AM

jj - The Croce Signature Guitar is a bit misleading. On the site there is no manufacture date on the guitar and Elderly lists it on their 'Vintage' page as "Recent". Still they mentioned that Jim's signature is "inlaid" therefore if "recent" it still may be collectible but certainly is not "vintage". His signature is no doubt a reproduction and not signed by his hand, in his presence. A reproduction authorized by his family/estate, I hope.
Yuri

Yuri

10-06-2008, 11:41 AM

Suzi

10-06-2008, 12:33 PM

jj - thanks for setting me straight. You are indeed correct.

10-06-2008, 01:59 PM

lastly, I would add the combo of Cat Stevens and Alun Davies to the tasty guitar and harmony duos (you could add Bruce Lynch on bass), very much like Croce and Maury

i found an example of a Cat tune (joined by the supporting trio mentioned above) that I could really hear Jim Croce singing, in a lower register of course but with the same depth of heart

YouTube - Cat Stevens - If I Laugh

10-06-2008, 02:11 PM

I agree the style of "Thursday" has a Lightfoot feel to it.

it looks like even though i was long winded in this thread, i failed to mention that I thought Thursday had a Steel Rail Blues influence to it, feel-wise...which is surprizing since that's mainly what my $0.02 was going to be...instead you guys have had to sift through $5 worth

anyhow, Suzi, it's not surprising for as you know Steel Rail Blues was the lead track on Facets back in '66...I have heard that track as performed by Croce but cannot find it online and do not own it

-----
yeah, char...jj junior had a grrrreat time at your place and when he DOES talk he can be unstoppable and let's on that he knows it all, has done it all and can be unbearably self centered at times...no idea where that comes from, lol

i perceive that his teach has no obligation to talk to him and no time since there are like 30+ kinds in there... compared to his daycare years, in junior kindergarten he is merely a number (same as i felt in university...i felt the dean should have been there to nuture me)

have a great one, all...ps) did anyone here ever see Croce live?

10-06-2008, 02:16 PM

brink-

10-07-2008, 11:32 PM

I love when a topic catches fire like this one, a lot of information comes out. The web site that I was on is:
http://www.maurymuehleisen.com/

Maury was the headliner and Jim the backup when they first go together. Interesting that Maury was so confident in his ability that he would go from headliner to the backup without a squawk.

I'd love to find that first album, thanks for the Ingrid and Jim video - so cool. AJ is a jazz singer and accomplished pianist, Ingrid is remarried and owner/chef at "Croce's" in San Francisco.

Suzi

10-08-2008, 12:11 AM

10-08-2008, 12:30 AM

I love when a topic catches fire like this one,

Oh moderator........there's a pyromaniac in our midst

brink-

10-08-2008, 08:18 AM

Hi Brink! Ingrid is remarried and owns "Croce's" located in the Gaslamp here in San Diego. One other tidbit - Jim, Ingrid and A.J. Croce were living here in San Diego when Jim and Maury died in the plane crash. My husband's best friend - and best man at our wedding - sold Ingrid her first house here in San Diego.

oops! I got my "San" confused. I didn't know they were in California when he died. I watched a special on PBS (I think) and it had a lot of footage of the farmhouse where so much music was made. Was a great place.

brink-

10-08-2008, 08:21 AM

Oh moderator........there's a pyromaniac in our midst

Are you telling the same moderator that you wanted to impeach????

"(Does anyone know the procedure to impeach moderators ?)"

charlene

10-08-2008, 10:17 AM

can't impeach!! - i was appointed..
lol

put down the flamethrower brink..that's a girl..nice and easy..put it down..
;)

teherie

10-08-2008, 06:50 PM

I posted a note on Maury's web site and got a nice e-mail from his sister. Thanks for an enjoyable forum and lively discussion.

BendRick

10-11-2008, 01:19 AM

I have the LP "Photographs and Memories" which, if you pull out the album sleeve, has a photo of a very young "Adrian Croce". Is this the same as AJ Croce? What is he doing now? Is he a musician like his Dad? BTW if you look at the sleeve notes on the CD, the photo is not there. That was the cool thing about 33 LPs, there was so much more artwork and photographs.Anyone remember the original Beatles: Magical Mystery Tour LP?!

teherie

10-11-2008, 11:12 AM

A.J. Croce is an musician. Here's a link to his web site. Hope this helps.

http://www.ajcroce.com/aj-croce-biography.htm

05-02-2009, 10:55 AM

Foraging through You Tube, I found this video of Sal Joseph, the fellow who wrote the song, performing "Thursday".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asfSH7fSCiw&feature=channel

Geez, I had to break out the sonar equipment to find this thread.

05-02-2009, 11:37 AM

great find, rm!http://www.corfid.com/vbb/images_corfid/buttons/edit.gif (http://www.corfid.com/vbb/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=151591)

on the previous page of this thread i'd only found a studio recording of him playing this but not any vintage video such as this! thanks, super stuff

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=406244

is he (sal/joe) not a real gem...very heartfelt and moving

YouTube - Google JOSEPH SALVIUOLO,MAC,AM aka SAL JOSEPH (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQoipy87Hok)

i ask this occasionally: does anyone have jim and ingrid singing a recorded version of SFAWN? go to 1:40, i've always liked this clip

YouTube - Jim Croce Trailer for Documentary (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-fwTMW3Rbg&feature=related)

charlene

05-02-2009, 01:01 PM

wonderful stuff..
and not to derail this thread but those clips took me down the road to this guy:wowza..
YouTube - Wayfaring Stranger (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLu3idRYKPc)

timetraveler

05-02-2009, 10:01 PM

On Sept. 20th it was the 35 annivesary of the plane crash that killed Jim Croce and Maury Muehleisen. I found this on the web site for Maury:

My fondest memory of Maury was when he and I recorded the backup harmony parts on "Thursday" during the "I Got A Name" sessions in the summer of 1973. We always sounded great together, but this day was cosmic…and quick. Two takes…one to get the basic background track down and the second to "double" our parts. If you listen closely, you can almost hear us smiling as we nailed the performance supporting Jim's tribute to Gordon Lightfoot. It was a very sweet moment.

Tommy West, Maury's record producerYou know, maybe that's why I've always enjoyed tunes by artists like Gordon & Croce. They told some fantastic stories through their music. If you ever get a chance to listen to it, though, you should lend an ear to a tune by Croce called Photgraphs & Memories. I swear, it almost sounds like Gordon's style.

05-02-2009, 11:41 PM

My husband's best friend - and best man at our wedding - sold Ingrid her first house here in San Diego.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxkJGHzT7LA&feature=channel

cool interview...bypass the first few minutes of her intro....but at 2:45 onward, is this the place AJ is talking about that was 2 miles from the closest neighbour?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0W30DOHvAs&feature=related

at 30 second mark, a bit of AJ (didnt realize he'd been partially blinded...he sure looks like dad) playing Lover's Cross from the compilation album

Suzi

05-03-2009, 11:06 AM

jj, I'm not a 100% sure if you are directing the house in San Diego question directly at me. If you are, the answer to your question (is this the house Ingrid purchased in San Diego) is no. Relisten to the interview and AJ specifically mentioned that "my dad" purchased the house sight unseen.

05-03-2009, 01:51 PM

oh, i had read that Gord and other musicians had some great jams at Jim's place way back....i found a pic of their first house in SD...what you are referring to must be the first house she bought (on her own) after he was deceased

she says that she has enough bootleg JC material to release an album per year for 10 years...i hope she stumble across the SFAWN version at somepoint sooner than later...it's odd that with all the JC original material, that they show a clip of a Gord tune in the doc trailer...but i'm not complaining

LarryC

05-24-2011, 10:40 PM

Does anyone know where I can purchase the guitar transcription or score for the Song Thursday? I am most interested in the actual recording for both guitar parts. It seems to not be available anywhere. My email is larrycalella@yahoo.com

Much thanks,

Larry

Lisa J

05-24-2011, 11:50 PM

Jim Croce and Maury Muehleisen (Lead) [/B]
3) Harry Chapin, Doug Walker (Lead), Big John Wallace (Bass)
4) John Denver, Pete Huttlinger (Lead)

I read about a great concert in Detroit back around 1977 with Gord, John Denver, Harry Chapin and James Taylor and Terry was the backing lead guitarist for all four..

I was just listening to a playlist that included Gord, Jim Croce, James Taylor and John Denver on my Itunes when I opened the forum to see this thread! brought a smile to my face. :biggrin: I love the guitar playing on all of these singers' recordings. Now I am going to actually take some time to read through everything posted here and figure out what i have been missing the past 35 years!

Auburn Annie

05-26-2011, 12:41 PM

You know, maybe that's why I've always enjoyed tunes by artists like Gordon & Croce. They told some fantastic stories through their music. If you ever get a chance to listen to it, though, you should lend an ear to a tune by Croce called Photgraphs & Memories. I swear, it almost sounds like Gordon's style.

Here's the song - I agree it sure could be a Lightfoot song:
YouTube - ‪Jim Croce; Photographs And Memories‬&rlm;