johnfowles
08-24-2007, 01:34 PM
Advance apologies if you find this too technical, but I personally have an abiding interest in video formats and lately DVD production.You do not have to read it and there will not be a compulsory test afterwards I promise
I just wanted to present this result of much researching i.e searching and searching again.
Please comment if you will even if only to complain of yet another migraine!!
If anybody has any questions please Private Message me
Leaving aside the future problem of understanding High Definition TeleVision and the fact that very soon now both the UK and US will no longer have analog broadcasts so everything will be digital,whether you like it or not!
There is still the consideration of the subject of this thread, as videotapes recorded in one format are incompatible with the other, but what about DVDs??
For VCR tapes I have a digital format converter a Samur CDM630
http://www.110220volts.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/CDM-630.jpg
http://www.lektroserver2.co.uk/images/techpages/cdm630-rear.jpg
that works marvelously and was over US $200 back in 2000.
The Current UK price is £299.00 as found on
http://www.lektropacks.com/view_item.php?product=22&&category=11
and I just found two alternatives for $149 and $159
the Atlona CDM 660 US $149.00
http://www.johnfowles.org.uk/images/cdm_660.jpg
http://www.lenexpo-electronics.com/ATLONA-MULTI-SYSTEM-PAL-NTSC-VIDEO-CONVERTER-p-16318.html
or the Atlona CSB3690
http://www.johnfowles.org.uk/images/sb3690.jpg
http://www.lenexpo-electronics.com/ATLONA-MULTI-SYSTEM-PAL-NTSC-VIDEO-CONVERTER-p-16319.html
I am bringing this up becuse I just came across a saved copy of a topic at(old forum
http://www.corfid.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=003198;p=)
on this new forum the address for the identical thread/topic is revised to:-
http://www.corfid.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=13390
scroll up or down to my reply posted May 24, 2005 10:49
in which I expounded on my theories about digitised video with particular reference to PAL videotapes in Australia
Having previously found that our current NTSC DVD player/Television combination is fully capable of playing allegedly PAL DVDs I have just bought a very cheap and compact "standalone" DVD Player for a mere $24.99 plus $10.66 shipping
Still available from
http://www.ecost.com item reference 436819181
http://eimages.ecost.com/prod/5115000/5115095_lg.jpg
or elsewhere:-
http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggImage/productimage/82-107-052-09.jpg
and I was delighted to read in the specification in the destructions that it is "Compatible with NTSC / PAL system",
In fact the only problem will be the vexed question of an incorrect region DVD;quite why any music DVD should be limited to any region is beyond my comprehension. (cinema issue films yes I can accept the logic (just) but music why limit any of them??
It reminded me that a while ago I came across a brilliant web page describing the salient differences between PAL and NTSC and how that affects DVDs.Having just reread it I must say that it is required reading for anybody with any interest in burning or indeed playing DVD's
It is quite simply the very best and most comprehensive explanation of the complex and oft misunderstood subject of PAL and NTSC DVDs
http://www.michaeldvd.com.au/Articles/PALvsNTSC/PALvsNTSC.asp
PAL vs NTSC
or,Which DVD Do I Buy?
I which a thorough review of the different frame rates and resolution standards etc is presented along with some most useful observations starting with a basic statement essential to the understanding what is going on digital-wise
"The first thing I need to clarify about DVD is that PAL and NTSC are words and formats that are applied to DVD for convenience, and because of historical convention. There is nothing fundamental about a DVD which makes it either PAL or NTSC , but for simplicity and brevity, I will continue to use these terms throughout this article."
"The Issue Of Resolution
In principle, PAL DVDs have a compelling advantage over NTSC DVDs. PAL DVDs have 576 pixels of vertical resolution versus 480 pixels of vertical resolution. That's a 20% increase in resolution for a PAL DVD as compared to an NTSC DVD. Increased resolution translates into a better looking image. However, this is an overly simplistic way of looking at the whole PAL vs NTSC issue as there are other factors that need to be taken into account." which an analysis leads to this statement:-
"Therefore, the limiting factor in resolution is the DVD itself, with PAL inherently higher in resolution than NTSC."
the author's well argued conclusion is that
"Implications for Video Programming On DVD
The best format to record and play back video programming on DVD in is the format in which the programming was originally created. If it was videotaped in the NTSC format, then the NTSC DVD will be the version of choice. If it was videotaped in the PAL format, then the PAL DVD will be the version of choice"
and
"Conclusions
PAL is a higher resolution format for DVD than NTSC. All else being equal, a PAL DVD of a movie should look significantly better than the equivalent NTSC DVD.
If a PAL version of a movie DVD is not 16x9 enhanced and the NTSC version is 16x9 enhanced, then the NTSC version will be the preferred version, all else being equal.
For video-based material, it is generally better for the DVD to remain in the same format as the source material."
from all this I deduce that once any video has been digitised it should play equally well on both PAL and NTSC DVD Players both freestanding and computer based and into their associated television or monitor hence the widely acessible flash videos as stored on YouTube (http://www.youtube.com), where I surmise punters down under and over the pond can view just as easily or difficultly as us in the States
The remaining problems are the twin limitations that might have been imposed by the DVD producer
Region Designation and Restriction e.g UK region 2 USA region 1
an attempt by the movie industry to control availability see below
Copyright Protection a vain attempt to prevent the unauthorised copying of DVDs see below
As far as the region restriction is concerned there are freeware ripping programmes available (I use the ubiquitous DVDshrink (http://www.mrbass.org/dvdshrink/)) that will successfully copy any region restricted DVD as a region free version
and the restriction of a copyright protected DVD can be overcome by another decryption freeware program such as this one associated with DVD shrink:-
DVDecryptor (http://www.mrbass.org/dvddrip)
and for today that is all I have to say about that except to sign off
This has been a Public Service Education and Entertainment posting from
"Sir" John Fowles Bt
I just wanted to present this result of much researching i.e searching and searching again.
Please comment if you will even if only to complain of yet another migraine!!
If anybody has any questions please Private Message me
Leaving aside the future problem of understanding High Definition TeleVision and the fact that very soon now both the UK and US will no longer have analog broadcasts so everything will be digital,whether you like it or not!
There is still the consideration of the subject of this thread, as videotapes recorded in one format are incompatible with the other, but what about DVDs??
For VCR tapes I have a digital format converter a Samur CDM630
http://www.110220volts.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/CDM-630.jpg
http://www.lektroserver2.co.uk/images/techpages/cdm630-rear.jpg
that works marvelously and was over US $200 back in 2000.
The Current UK price is £299.00 as found on
http://www.lektropacks.com/view_item.php?product=22&&category=11
and I just found two alternatives for $149 and $159
the Atlona CDM 660 US $149.00
http://www.johnfowles.org.uk/images/cdm_660.jpg
http://www.lenexpo-electronics.com/ATLONA-MULTI-SYSTEM-PAL-NTSC-VIDEO-CONVERTER-p-16318.html
or the Atlona CSB3690
http://www.johnfowles.org.uk/images/sb3690.jpg
http://www.lenexpo-electronics.com/ATLONA-MULTI-SYSTEM-PAL-NTSC-VIDEO-CONVERTER-p-16319.html
I am bringing this up becuse I just came across a saved copy of a topic at(old forum
http://www.corfid.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=003198;p=)
on this new forum the address for the identical thread/topic is revised to:-
http://www.corfid.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=13390
scroll up or down to my reply posted May 24, 2005 10:49
in which I expounded on my theories about digitised video with particular reference to PAL videotapes in Australia
Having previously found that our current NTSC DVD player/Television combination is fully capable of playing allegedly PAL DVDs I have just bought a very cheap and compact "standalone" DVD Player for a mere $24.99 plus $10.66 shipping
Still available from
http://www.ecost.com item reference 436819181
http://eimages.ecost.com/prod/5115000/5115095_lg.jpg
or elsewhere:-
http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggImage/productimage/82-107-052-09.jpg
and I was delighted to read in the specification in the destructions that it is "Compatible with NTSC / PAL system",
In fact the only problem will be the vexed question of an incorrect region DVD;quite why any music DVD should be limited to any region is beyond my comprehension. (cinema issue films yes I can accept the logic (just) but music why limit any of them??
It reminded me that a while ago I came across a brilliant web page describing the salient differences between PAL and NTSC and how that affects DVDs.Having just reread it I must say that it is required reading for anybody with any interest in burning or indeed playing DVD's
It is quite simply the very best and most comprehensive explanation of the complex and oft misunderstood subject of PAL and NTSC DVDs
http://www.michaeldvd.com.au/Articles/PALvsNTSC/PALvsNTSC.asp
PAL vs NTSC
or,Which DVD Do I Buy?
I which a thorough review of the different frame rates and resolution standards etc is presented along with some most useful observations starting with a basic statement essential to the understanding what is going on digital-wise
"The first thing I need to clarify about DVD is that PAL and NTSC are words and formats that are applied to DVD for convenience, and because of historical convention. There is nothing fundamental about a DVD which makes it either PAL or NTSC , but for simplicity and brevity, I will continue to use these terms throughout this article."
"The Issue Of Resolution
In principle, PAL DVDs have a compelling advantage over NTSC DVDs. PAL DVDs have 576 pixels of vertical resolution versus 480 pixels of vertical resolution. That's a 20% increase in resolution for a PAL DVD as compared to an NTSC DVD. Increased resolution translates into a better looking image. However, this is an overly simplistic way of looking at the whole PAL vs NTSC issue as there are other factors that need to be taken into account." which an analysis leads to this statement:-
"Therefore, the limiting factor in resolution is the DVD itself, with PAL inherently higher in resolution than NTSC."
the author's well argued conclusion is that
"Implications for Video Programming On DVD
The best format to record and play back video programming on DVD in is the format in which the programming was originally created. If it was videotaped in the NTSC format, then the NTSC DVD will be the version of choice. If it was videotaped in the PAL format, then the PAL DVD will be the version of choice"
and
"Conclusions
PAL is a higher resolution format for DVD than NTSC. All else being equal, a PAL DVD of a movie should look significantly better than the equivalent NTSC DVD.
If a PAL version of a movie DVD is not 16x9 enhanced and the NTSC version is 16x9 enhanced, then the NTSC version will be the preferred version, all else being equal.
For video-based material, it is generally better for the DVD to remain in the same format as the source material."
from all this I deduce that once any video has been digitised it should play equally well on both PAL and NTSC DVD Players both freestanding and computer based and into their associated television or monitor hence the widely acessible flash videos as stored on YouTube (http://www.youtube.com), where I surmise punters down under and over the pond can view just as easily or difficultly as us in the States
The remaining problems are the twin limitations that might have been imposed by the DVD producer
Region Designation and Restriction e.g UK region 2 USA region 1
an attempt by the movie industry to control availability see below
Copyright Protection a vain attempt to prevent the unauthorised copying of DVDs see below
As far as the region restriction is concerned there are freeware ripping programmes available (I use the ubiquitous DVDshrink (http://www.mrbass.org/dvdshrink/)) that will successfully copy any region restricted DVD as a region free version
and the restriction of a copyright protected DVD can be overcome by another decryption freeware program such as this one associated with DVD shrink:-
DVDecryptor (http://www.mrbass.org/dvddrip)
and for today that is all I have to say about that except to sign off
This has been a Public Service Education and Entertainment posting from
"Sir" John Fowles Bt