StringTalk

[Iron]

Some of the Guitar picken patrons on this site seemed to have some interest in this idea of a pickers post or topic or whatever you want to call it.I thought "StringTalk" would work. PickersPost don't sound to bad either.Take yer pick and pick away...

Cathy,
You mentioned about a 12-string on the horizon.If any dealers in Your area handle Godin/Seagull guitars,check them out if You get time.If You are not concerned about glitter and shine,the S-12(+) is a great choice for a 12-string if You don't want to spend a million.Great sound for Gord songs,easy on the fingers,and fairly easy on the wallet,compared to some of the higher end choices.The S12+ that I got from a local dealer had a slight ding on the front,got it for almost 1/2 price.The electronics leave a lot to be desired,but other than that,I could'nt be happier.This model is made with cherry wood with a dull finish like on the D-15 mahogony.They are made up in Gordland too!!Just thought I would pass it along...

[Cathy]

Thanks for the suggestions, Brian. I had forgotten about the Seagulls, and I know many people with only good things to say about them. I've really got my heart set on a Martin J12-15 or Martin J12-16GT, though. I guess we'll just have to wait and see how things work out.

[New 12 String Mike]

Brian,

StringTalk works for me.

I just rediscovered "Miguel." Yeah, I know its a fingerstyle six song, and I'm supposed to be doing 12s, but it is a fun one to play and sing. The better base on the new Martin got me doing this one.

Be working on Soul is the Rock on the 12 too. Triangle is another fun one.

[New 12 String Mike]

Someday,

Hmmm. I haven't tried to describe this with just words before, without being able to demonstrate it.

What are some of the songs you want to learn first?

A good one to start on would be one like, "Pony Man." It is a simple G-C-D chord song with an easy to hear thumb and finger style play listening to the record. You start the chord with the thumb on the bass strings and fill in using your fingers plucking the high strings with an up stroke in a pattern. In "Pony" you basically just alter the bass note with each chord change as you keep the pattern going with your fingers on the higher strings. The note changes on the high strings have to flow along as your fingers move chord to chord. I suppose it is similar to playing the bass when you have a set repeatable passage in a song.

Hope this helps you get started.

[Glenmark]

I tend to use my thumb for the low E and A, index for the D and G, middle for the B and high E...I think. I learned the technique years ago and now it's second nature, but the rhythm is like a swimming motion with your fingers.

[vlmagee]

OK, beginner here chiming in, but my brain is far more advanced than my fingers.

You use your thumb for the bass notes, alternating low bass and high bass (in that order usually). The bass notes depend on the chord. You play treble notes between the bass notes, not necessarily 1 for 1, but that's a basic pattern that is used in many songs.

When I was first learning (okay, I am still learning), I created a simple notation for myself so I could write down how to play a song. This was before I learned tab, but it is useful as a shorthand to describe picking patterns. It does not tell you the chord or how to fret it, but it is a simple way to communicate the pattern.

T is thumb, I is index, M is middle (there are other ways to play, but this is the most common and usually easiest to learn). Here are two very similar patterns that are can be used to play a number of Lightfoot songs. I use them for Sit Down Young Stranger and Song For A Winter's Night, and they are very close to the way the recordings sound. The number is the string. This is only the picking hand, and doesn't show the timing.

T6-T4-I3-T6-M2-T4 (6 beats to the measure)
T6-T4-I3-T6-M2-T4-I3 (7 beats to the measure)

You can use either or a combination of both. The 6 then 4 string is low bass then high bass for chords like G, E, and D/F# (a GL favorite). For C and A, as examples, the bass would be strings 5 and 4 but C/G, another GL favorite, would use 6 and 4. It is the alternation of the bass notes played by the thumb that establishes the rhythm of Travis picking and gives it its distinctive sound. Not everybody plays it this way, but this is how it is intended to be played.

If you play around with these patterns, or the simple alternation (with 8 beats to the measure), you'll find that you can play most of Lightfoot's Travis picked songs (and Dylan's and Simon's and others).

Of course, it helps if you practice more often than I do. As I said, my brain is far ahead of my fingers.

If you want to learn SFAWN or SDYS, I can send you the specific picking for the intro of the first and the bridge of the second (all figured out and written down by Cathy).

Have fun. Travis picking is great, and really makes the songs.

[New 12 String Mike]

Wow Valerie you've worked at it!

Someday,

Any method that you can make work for you, use.

There is no absolute "correct" method. It wouldn't be "folk" music if it was.

But, one thing I will caution you about. If you are planning to take lessons, you may not want to proceed much further on your own. Your future teacher may have a method of teaching Travis Style and if you start by yourself, you may be placed in the position of un-learning what you've done to learn the teacher's way. This could lead to tangled fingers and lots of frustration.

Having said that, I'll go on to say, while I did have a few formal lessons with a guitar teacher, I never had enough to hurt my picking any. While I applaude Valerie's work toward her playing, I've never used TAB, or standard note reading, for my fingerstyle work that accompanied my singing. I've always seen music notation for use for instrumental playing that included the melody, etc. If others, or you, want to use notation for things other than that, you'll get no grief from me. I do "read" and know some theory. I learned it when I was doing choral singing, etc. It was necessary then, obviously, but I've always felt that singing folk music and playing folk style guitar techniques shouldn't be so formal. Does my theory stuff come into play on my guitars, sure. I just try to listen and learn. Watch other players and learn from them. Would I be a good lead guitar player in a band? I'd have lots of trouble. Some will say I've done it wrong for almost 40 years, but I've had fun.

I started simply by alternating a down stroke with the thumb on the 4 low strings with an up stroke, using my index finger on the high strings until I filled out the measure. Just an UP...DOWN...UP...DOWN thing. As that started to become comfortable I added the middle finger. It wasn't long before I moved from swipes at the strings to individual plucking. For me it was a natural progression to that "swimming" thing that Glenmark mentioned above. It probably isn't the best way, but it worked. In short order I was moving in more complex rythyms, (tripplets gave me Hell for awhile!) but, I made it.

Other folks I know will add other tricks and stuff to the list. It is the folky way, anyway.

The main thing is to have fun!

[Iron]

Someday,
You got lots of great advice,thought I would give you my 2 penny's worth.Being a bass player will give you an upper hand{thumb} learning travis picken.Sing the song's as you are practicing and you will pretty much figure out if your getting the bass notes in the right place.Restless is one of my favorite T-pickers,though the between verses picken still gives me fits,the rest is fairly simple.
Another good one to practice T-picken is Cold on the Shoulder,at least I think so.
Here is an exercise you can work at to get the basic finger pattern etched into your mind.
Thumb,index,thumb,middle,T,I,T,M,T,I,T,M.....
You can practice this exercise with your fingers anytime or anywhere,you don't even need your guitar.Just keep the pattern in mind and practice against whatever object is at hand.{A little discreation may be advised here}As you get this basic pattern etched into your brain and fingers and start applying it to songs,you can work at the alternating bass and treble as needed.try to work on a song that you are very familar with,this will help you to know when your gettin it,and when your not.As I mentioned,Try to get that basic T,I,T,M,T,I,T,M.....pattern etched in to yer fingers and stem cells,and go from there....

[Iron]

I use the right side of the gearshift with my arm resting on the center console.Hey,whatever work's...

[Cathy]

Originally posted by New 12 String Mike:
Brian,

StringTalk works for me.

I just rediscovered "Miguel." Yeah, I know its a fingerstyle six song, and I'm supposed to be doing 12s, but it is a fun one to play and sing. The better base on the new Martin got me doing this one.

Be working on Soul is the Rock on the 12 too. Triangle is another fun one. If you like fingerpicking, you might try using the 12 string while playing Bitter Green. I worked up an arrangement about 5 years ago that is beautiful on a 12.

[Cathy]

Someday, if Val can do it, so can you. She started out Travis picking from the very first time she picked up a guitar.
Just a little embellishment on her post to help you with timing.

She wrote T6-T4-I3-T6-M2-T4 (6 beats to the measure)
T6-T4-I3-T6-M2-T4-I3 (7 beats to the measure)

Count the first one... T6-T4-I3-T6-M2-T4... out using the following rhythm...1-2 and 3 and 4. The numerals are on the beat, and the word 'and' falls on the off beat. The numerals are played with you thumb and the 'ands' are played with index and middle fingers. T6 means thumb on 6th string. T4 means thumb on the 4th string. I3 means index on the 3rd string and m2 means middle finger on the second string. So the bass is constantly alternating between the 6th and 4th string, with the index and middle played between the bass notes. You would count T6-T4-I3-T6-M2-T4 out like this: one, two and, three and four.
G is a good chord to practice this pattern on. On some chords, like A, C... the bass alternates from high bass to low, so the picking pattern is different. You have to remember which chords are low bass - high bass, or high bass - low bass. After awhile it comes naturally (unless you suffer from a brain aneurysm, of course, and forgot what one of your hands is supposed to do!)

On the guitar, the thickest string (bass string) is string #6, and the thinnest string (treble string) is string #1.
Here's a website that explain's Travis picking a lot better than I do... http://www.ezfolk.com/guitar/Tutorials/Travis_Picking/travis_picking.html

Now, don't expect to be able to do this immediately. It takes time to develope the style, especialliy if you don't have someone to show you first hand. I have some tablature of a few Ligthfoot songs I could share with you, if you are really serious about learning to fingerpick. E-mail me if you're interested. Or you can reach me on AIM under the screen name cathyco1, or Yahoo chat under cathycowette.

You can also e-mail me if there is any of this you don't understand, and cathy@cathycowette.com

Good luck!

[Cathy]

Originally posted by New 12 String Mike:
Wow Valerie you've worked at it!

Someday,

Any method that you can make work for you, use.

There is no absolute "correct" method. It wouldn't be "folk" music if it was.

But, one thing I will caution you about. If you are planning to take lessons, you may not want to proceed much further on your own. Your future teacher may have a method of teaching Travis Style and if you start by yourself, you may be placed in the position of un-learning what you've done to learn the teacher's way. This could lead to tangled fingers and lots of frustration.

And remember, many guitar teachers don't have a clue about the proper way to Travis pick. I've seen quite a few that don't know they are supposed to alternate low bass and high bass by picking the individual strings with their thumb. They pick the high bass with their index, which REALLY leads to tangled fingers!
Seeing you are a bass player, you have part of the problem figured out already... where to play the bass notes.

[vlmagee]

Originally posted by Cathy:
Someday, if Val can do it, so can you.What an endorsement. Imagine if she weren't a friend!

On some chords, like A, C... the bass alternates from high bass to low, so the picking pattern is different.Now you tell me!

[Iron]

Paul Smith is one to check out in the cyberspace arena also.I don,t know where else I would have heard about Him,so it must have been here at some time.I have him on the favs. list,but I have not had the time to really check it out enough to say if he would be any help with learning T-picken,but he does mention Gordon often.Now that the WINTER season is fast approaching,maybe I'll have time to check out Mr. Paul.
A little side note,the ONLY 2 good thing's about WINTER :
1. I have some time to be with the guitar.
2. WINTER remind's me,for months on end,How much I like Summer...

[Iron]

What is your "replacement"? What kind of strings are working for You ?
I put a set of Elixers on my 12 a while back,I'm goin back to the E.B.s next change.I will have to look it up,but if you {or anyone} buy strings on the internet,I'll get the info and pass it along.This place has the best prices I've ever seen for strings.Even including the shipping,their prices are super..

[New 12 String Mike]

Ah stringin' 12s!

I'm about to replace the originals on the Alvarez. It came with Elixer phospher bronze lights, that now as they are aging are finally losing their "too bright" sound.

I'm thinking of going with some Martin 80-20 lights when I change them.

Any opinions?

[New 12 String Mike]

Cathy,

Thanks for the Bitter Green 12 tip.

I've not tried BG, but I've been noodling with finger style 12 on Softly. Have you tried that one?

The first finger style 12 I did after buying the guitar in July was Paul Simon's "For Emily..." I'd always wanted to do that one.

[Cathy]

Originally posted by someday:
Well, my soon to be ex-husband had a 12-string his brother gave him that I had set up and strung.

He wants to keep it in his family so, we made some trades with furniture and stuff and he got me another Yamaha 12-string on e-bay.. It arrived with dead strings and needed a slight neck adjustment.. had that done yesterday.. put some Adamas Bronze light guage on it. You mean, you didn't steal his 12 string and hide it in the back of the messiest closet in your new place!
Gee. Where did this tool chest come from? It looks so much like the one my ex-husband had.

[Cathy]

Originally posted by New 12 String Mike:
Cathy,

Thanks for the Bitter Green 12 tip.

I've not tried BG, but I've been noodling with finger style 12 on Softly. Have you tried that one?

The first finger style 12 I did after buying the guitar in July was Paul Simon's "For Emily..." I'd always wanted to do that one. I have played just about every Gord song that's fingerpicked (and a lot of the strummed ones too).

I used to play a lot of Paul Simon sings, including For Emily... but I've forgotten most of them... well, except for The Boxer, Kathy's Song and Homeward Bound.

[Cathy]

Originally posted by vlmagee:
quote:Originally posted by Cathy:
Someday, if Val can do it, so can you.What an endorsement. Imagine if she weren't a friend!

On some chords, like A, C... the bass alternates from high bass to low, so the picking pattern is different.Now you tell me! [/QUOTE]What are you talking about? You had already figured out the alternate bass notes... all by yourself!

[Cathy]

Originally posted by someday:
Well, my soon to be ex-husband had a 12-string his brother gave him that I had set up and strung.

He wants to keep it in his family so, we made some trades with furniture and stuff and he got me another Yamaha 12-string on e-bay.. It arrived with dead strings and needed a slight neck adjustment.. had that done yesterday.. put some Adamas Bronze light guage on it. Wow. I wish my ex would have bought me a 12 string! The only thing with the number 12 he ever bought was a 12 pack.

[Cathy]

Originally posted by someday:
LOL Cathy about hiding the guitar....but there are no more messes in my place since he moved out!! I'm an obsessive, compulsive neat freak... P.S. I am having fun working on IYCRMM.. :D IYCRMM was the first Lightfoot song I learned. I started playing it in the early '70s, but didn't really learn the correct way to play it until 1995 or so. I was sitting in my house, playing along to a CD of Gord when the song came on, and it just struck me how to chord it, and more importantly, how to fingerpick it. I love that song.

[Iron]

Someday,
My often times mistaken sense of humor tends to inadvertantly get me knee deep in the stinky stuff,so don't take this wrong ,it's jest in fun.

Lets back the chord cart up here for a minute.You say your goin to try Bitter Green when Your "ability" is better,and on yer next post,You taught yerself Sundown,sang and played it on the first take.How much better could your "ability" be??? You must be another one of those musical naturalilsts that just hears something,picks up the guitar,and plays it!!!
If I work on a song for a month,and I'm half arsed pleased with it,I'm happy.You people just make me sick to my acoustic stomach..Why could'nt I have had some of those natural musical chromostones spilled into me??
As for the strings,I used to think a string was a string, until I started trying different ones.For now,I really like the Earnie Ball on the six string (med.light).Keep on Pickin

[Cathy]

Originally posted by Iron:
Someday,
My often times mistaken sense of humor tends to inadvertantly get me knee deep in the stinky stuff,so don't take this wrong ,it's jest in fun.

Lets back the chord cart up here for a minute.You say your goin to try Bitter Green when Your "ability" is better,and on yer next post,You taught yerself Sundown,sang and played it on the first take.How much better could your "ability" be??? You must be another one of those musical naturalilsts that just hears something,picks up the guitar,and plays it!!!
If I work on a song for a month,and I'm half arsed pleased with it,I'm happy.You people just make me sick to my acoustic stomach..Why could'nt I have had some of those natural musical chromostones spilled into me??
As for the strings,I used to think a string was a string, until I started trying different ones.For now,I really like the Earnie Ball on the six string (med.light).Keep on Pickin Well Iron, if it makes you feel any better, after I came too, I couldn't remember a thing about finger picking, and it scared the crap out of me. In my own little sick mind, I didn't care if I couldn't walk, or talk, or even think, for that matter, as long as I could still fingerpick. I mean, come on! Don't take that part away!
It took me a couple of weeks to even play well enough to convince myself that I could get it back with practice, and I'm still a lot slower at it than I originally was. But it's getting there.

[Iron]

Cathy,
If it might be any consolation,Whatever you may have temporarily forgot is probably more than I'll ever know ...
When it comes to sick mind's,here's a glimpse of mine:
I feel bad for people that've had accident's and become paralyzed and such,but I've often thought,would'nt it be neat if I had some kind of accident at work,was paralyzed from just below the waist down,{hey, it's my accident}got on total dissability,and had to spend all my time doin what I love to do..
I better quit while I'm behind....

[Cathy]

Originally posted by Iron:
Cathy,
If it might be any consolation,Whatever you may have temporarily forgot is probably more than I'll ever know ...
When it comes to sick mind's,here's a glimpse of mine:
I feel bad for people that've had accident's and become paralyzed and such,but I've often thought,would'nt it be neat if I had some kind of accident at work,was paralyzed from just below the waist down,{hey, it's my accident}got on total dissability,and had to spend all my time doin what I love to do..
I better quit while I'm behind.... Being paralyzed from the waist down would be devastating to most men!
Yeah, you'd better quit!

[Iron]

someday,
Do you do Sundow on the 6 or 12.I know Gordon usually has the Gibson at hand,but this is one that I've found works for me on the 6.I somehow incorporate that unmistakable baseline in with the rythym and it sounds pretty decent.
Are you doing Sundown with E5,B7sus4,or E,E7,B7? If your familiar with the 1st version,which is the way I do it,you will be able to do a few of my other favorites pretty easy.Sea of tran.,Farewell to Annabel just to name a couple.
Just curious,you mentioned the 12,What are you sportin for the 6-string?

[Iron]

Cathy,
I did specify "just below".I was only thinking of how devastated Gloria would be,so thats why I made that specification.....

[Cathy]

Originally posted by Iron:
Cathy,
I did specify "just below".I was only thinking of how devastated Gloria would be,so thats why I made that specification..... Well, that's good to know. Somehow, I figure Gloria would be just fine, and he would be the one suffering. Just an opinion.

[New 12 String Mike]

Looking for the 12-string answer.

OK just switched to a set of Martin 80-20 extra lights on the 12. Much better Gord-like sound.

Mary, did you get the neck adjust done?

[<Reminder>]

The only one on the list I'm familiar with is the first one : D/F#

You play a D chord and wrap your thumb around the neck, placing it in the 2nd fret area. It opens up a world of possibilities. The rest of your list is a mystery to me. I may have played them, but without my knowledge. Sort of like my last Vegas trip.

RMD

[<Reminder>]

Someday,

If you have the Don Quixote album, I believe you'll see Lightfoot using the D/F# position on the cover.

RMD

[Iron]

Someday,
Are these "Gord Chords" for a Gord song? If they are,let me know what song,or song's you need them for and I'll check my books.I think that many Gordchords are a bit unique to His own work.I have several chord books with thousands of chords,but could not find some of the "Gordchords" in any of them.
This is just a guess,but from the chords you have mentioned,might you be working on the "Restless" bridge?? I have all that info for the chords and tab,if that is what your looking for.Let me know and I'll find some way to get it to You.

[Iron]

Someday,
Just a guess here,might you be workin on the bridge to "Restless" ?? I have the chord diagrams and Tabs ,thanks to Sir John and an old friend by the name of Matthew Fifer.You can either go WAAAY back in the archives of this site and check for the info,or take a chance on the address;
http://www.johnfowles.org.uk/matthewfifer/Restlessbridgetab.htm
If it is Gordchords for a Gord song your lookin for,I have most of the Gord Music books in print that I know of,but it would be easier if You mentioned the specific song.

[Cathy]

Originally posted by someday:
Got my other guitar fixed today. :)

Can someone help me with these confusing chords that aren't in my book.. tried many times looking with the different combinations of flat's and sharps but can't find them.
(D/F#)
(F#m/A)
(A7+)
(G#7+/A)
(G#7/A)
(Dm6/A)
:( Try this link: http://www.looknohands.com/chordhouse/guitar/index_db.html
Select the basic chord, like F#m and look at the diagram. The F#m/A means that it has an A bass, or in other words, you play the 5th string open for the A bass. You should be able to find most of these chords in this site. Or just go on the internet and Google "guitar chord diagrams" and you'll come up with many sites that show you how to play these chords.

[Cathy]

Originally posted by someday:
Cathy, that is a great site! Thank you for posting that link and explaining that...added to my favorites..for sure I'll be visiting that website ALOT!! :) If there is a chord you can't figure out using one of these sites, just ask. There are plenty of guitar players on this site who could help you.

[New 12 String Mike]

Broke out "Long Way Back Home" last night.

Played it years ago, don't know why I didn't think of it earlier as a 12-string song.

Age, that's what it is.

[Cathy]

Originally posted by Iron:
Someday,
Are these "Gord Chords" for a Gord song? If they are,let me know what song,or song's you need them for and I'll check my books.I think that many Gordchords are a bit unique to His own work.I have several chord books with thousands of chords,but could not find some of the "Gordchords" in any of them.
This is just a guess,but from the chords you have mentioned,might you be working on the "Restless" bridge?? I have all that info for the chords and tab,if that is what your looking for.Let me know and I'll find some way to get it to You. Hey Iron, do you think you could share the Restless bridge tablature with me? I used to have it, but I lost it, and never learned to play it right. I play a version of it, but something is different.

Thanks,

[Cathy]

Originally posted by someday:
Hi Cathy! Been working this evening on the beautiful song Changes...and had a challenging time learning to transition from F#m to Bm... but I'm gettin it. :cool:

There are so many helpful people here....You, Brian, Robby, Valerie, Mike and several others have been helping me learn chords. Been asking many questions and making a general nuisance of myself... :eek: plus freaking out daily about going to see Gord in February! :D Are you using the barre chord versions of F#m and Bm? Once your fingers get in shape to play barre chords, you'll find it's the easiest way to play F#m and Bm, especially in this case. Keep practicing, and one day you'll wonder why you couldn't play them at first.

[Cathy]

Originally posted by New 12 String Mike:
Broke out "Long Way Back Home" last night.

Played it years ago, don't know why I didn't think of it earlier as a 12-string song.

Age, that's what it is. I love that song. It's one that I play quite often, when I remember it!

[Robby Lake]

I think "Long Day Back Home"has him droping the low E string on the twelve.The thing is,when you play the chorus,you should avoid the low E or fret it on the 2 nd fret(e note).

[New 12 String Mike]

Cathy,

Remembering is the thing, isn't it? :)

Robby,

Yeah, I de-tune to "D" on that one...

Do "Approaching Lavender" on the 6 that way too.

[Cathy]

Originally posted by someday:
Going to add playing barre chords in my daily practice schedule. :eek: Try starting out with just a couple a day. You might try changing between them many times. You'll need to develop strength in your index finger, and flexibility in the others. Also, make sure the action on your guitar is fairly low. You don't want it so low that it buzzes, but low enough so you can use barre chords comfortably. If the action seems high, take it to a local music shop and have it adjusted. You might want to watch them do it, so you can do it yourself next time.

[New 12 String Mike]

Mary,

To second Cathy's suggestion and to add a tip.

You can practice barre chords a little easier by using a capo too. But as Cathy said you shouldn't have any buzzing.

Now don't confuse fret buzzing with the strings buzzing because you're not pushing hard enough! :)

Don't be discouraged. Barre chords are harder on an acoustic guitar than an electric. Don't go razzdrazz because you see electric guitar players move through them so effortlessly. Also make sure you've warmed up your hands by playing for a few minutes before you start work on barre chords.

As Cathy suggests practice switching from a barre to a "regular" chord and back again.

You'll get 'em.

When you do, you can try some on your 12-string!

[Cathy]

Originally posted by someday:
I gotta lot of practicing ahead of me.. but hey, I'm not doing too bad for someone who's only been playing about 3 months faithfully.

Every time I get discouraged I come back to this thread and read it and realize how much progress I've made in a short time. :)

Mike, Cathy thank you for all the tips and suggestions. Someday, what do you have for a guitar? Really, it would pay to take it in for a setup, if you haven't already done so, and don't be afraid to tell them you're learning barre chords.

[Cathy]

Okay, if they've already been set up, they should be good. It's just that many acoustic guitars are sold with the strings up high, so people can adjust them to their own liking.

One of the first songs I learned with barre chords was Proud Mary, back in the late 60s or early 70s, Then, after spending all that time getting used to barre chords, I discovered CCR played it with standard chords.

[Cathy]

Originally posted by someday:
Yes, but you learned the barre chords for stuff to play later!! :cool: Yeah, but I learned them on a 3/4 sized mahogany Silvertone with the strings up at least 1/2 inch from the neck. Actually, it was a nice little guitar after I figured out how to drop the action.

[Cathy]

Originally posted by someday:
Cathy, learning them like that must have really stregnthened your fingers and hand alot. Reminds me of years ago, I knew a bass player who played an upright bass, sitting down and holding it like an electric bass, to practice exercises and scales on...the strings were way up there.. :eek: He did that to build endurance. I don't see what the sense in that is. It's so easy to drop the action down, so why make yourself suffer by playing with high strings? I remember when I first started playing, my fingers were all blistered on the ends, and at times they'd even bleed. I remember wanting to stay home from school one day because my fingers hurt. Of course, I was told to get my butt on the bus and go to school.

[<Reminder>]

I recall reading in some publication where Lightfoot was quoted as saying something like 'Most of the time, I'm playing to the bone'.

A price to be paid.

RMD

[Iron]

Been outta touch for a while,just got the computor back from the shop the day before X-mas.
Got some catching up to do whenever time allows.
Cathy, did you try the site for the restless bridge that I mentioned to Someday?

[Iron]

Robby lake,
I did'nt forget about you,I'll get to it as soon as possible..

[Cathy]

Originally posted by Iron:
Been outta touch for a while,just got the computor back from the shop the day before X-mas.
Got some catching up to do whenever time allows.
Cathy, did you try the site for the restless bridge that I mentioned to Someday? No, I didn't see the link to it. Can you repost it?
I'm not home this week. I spent last week in NY and this week in Southern Maine at my son's house. If it would stop snowing, I might work my way home. Presque Isle, where I live in Northern Maine, got over 2 feet of snow yesterday. Places further north got 4 feet, so I suppose I shouldn't complain.
We're taking off for home soon. Wish me luck!

Cathy
http://www.cathycowette.com

[Robby Lake]

The Restless Bridge has some of the most obscure chords that Gord has ever displayed.Even though he rarely ever shows it,he knows his way up the fretboard... that was quite evident when I saw him play,"In My Fashion" live in Clearwater.
In one of my songs I use some of what I hear in
the bridge of "Restless".
And Mary,Make sre your truss rod and saddle are adjusted accordingly.Verrrry important...especially during the colder months.
I've gone thu every string brand known to man.
On Gords'12 string,he uses Ernie Balls with a wound octive E and B,so it's less steel sounding.
I believe he uses 12-52's on the 12 string and they come with plain steel octive E and B,so he substitutes them.I myself haven't owned a 12 since my crazy ex bashed mine(it was signed by Gord and Terry)but I have a 6 string.
I switch between 10s and 13's ,depending on how I feeel from week to week.My Electric has been in the shop for the past 2 months son when I play gigs all my songs from Hank to Hendrix have to be on my 6 string.D'addario EXP's are the best strings ever by far.If you're smart you'll by ,em

[Iron]

As for the R-bridge,I had my own improv.that worked for me,then I aquired the R bridge tab,as I mentioned.I don't know what I'm doin wrong,but I do know it don't sound like it should.Maybe someday it will just "click".That happens once in a while.
Robby,
What does winter,or for that matter,spring summer or fall,have to do with a setup? Kinda got me scratchin' the side of my head on that one...

[New 12 String Mike]

Mary,

You like Pony Man, huh? Got those fingers working?

Great!

[Robby Lake]

You guys are gross!We're soppose to be talkin bout Lightfoot here!Only kidding.
So Restless...some kind of diminished and augmented chords i guess,
Whenever I have trouble writting or finding chords
I start with the bass.What is the Bass DOING?
In the case of Restless,the bass is hard to hear until the chorus.O.K.,so as I remember it,you got the Capo on the 2nd and the main chord is the "A".
Just work on the bass notes or root from the A string.I guess ..that's my 2 cents-if that!

[Cathy]

Originally posted by Robby Lake:
[clip]I myself haven't owned a 12 since my crazy ex bashed mine(it was signed by Gord and Terry)but I have a 6 string.
[clip]
God. Your ex must be related to my ex, 'cause mine smashed up a guitar, too. Mine was just a cheap old Aria OM something or other, but it was by far the best guitar I owned at the time. If he'd have done that to one of my Martins, I'd have beaten him silly with what was left of the neck. And I'd have enjoyed each and every THUD.

[Iron]

Must have been some sort of one of those ma naj a twa things goin on.

[Iron]

Wow,these guitar bashing stories are gettin better and better.My DY45 Alvy ended up with the top crunched halfway down to the back.....
It was "The Ghost in The House",or my best friend at the time,,,"Wagged His Tale Into It"...

Go Figure

[Iron]

Robby lake,
I finally got around to getting some ODR's done.If You want to send me your mailing address(on priv.mess. or E-mail),I'll get it out to You.I sent You an E-mail to the address You gave me,but if You don't check em any more often than I do,I thought this might get to you quicker.
I made two extra,so if anyone else is interested,GitterDone.

[talbot10]

Originally posted by someday:
Just checkin in on String Talk.. finding that I'm trying to learn too much too fast and need to go back to strumming on the 12-string for a while... been concentrating on finger picking songs on the 6-string for about a month. These are all the songs in the pile I've worked on/learned since September.

Finger Picking songs:

Changes


The Pony Man
Circle of Steel
Pussywillows, Cattails
Restless - still working on bridge
If You Could Read My Mind - in progress
Bitter Green - in progress
Steel Rail Blues - in progress

Strumming Songs:

The Wreck
Canadian Railroad Trilogy
Sundown
Cotton Jenny
Black Day in July
Early Morning Rain
I'm Not Sayin' - in progress
Lovin' Me - in progress Wow! Quite a workload Mary! Good luck with them all. If you need any of the tabs let me know. see ya in the chat
Bill Hall

[Iron]

Someday,
When You get the R-bridge down,let me know how it works,if it works as per Mathew's tabs.It is really easy to "finger out",but I just cannot get it to sound right. You mentioned a few of my favorite 12's,The Wreck,EMR,and one You did'nt mention,SoT. Just was wondering if Your adding any lead with yer strumming tunes?On the Wreck,Terry's lead is a bit tough with all the bends,at least for me,so I do a version just using the E and B strings,and a little sliding, on the 12.It ain't Terry's Gretch,but it does get the point across if your workin it solo.Let me know if Your interested in the easy tabs for the Wreck,and I'll find a way to get them to You.(hey Hon,can You come here for a minute..)

Bill,
Could You hook me up with the tabs for Terrys's lead in "Baby Step Back"?I've been tryin to work this out,off and on,for a couple years.Believe me,I need the tabs....
What is the "Chat"?. Is it Gord stuff or more oriented for you masters of the strings?{don't take that wrong,That's a compliment}

[charlene]

it's some folks who post here and some who post on the newsgroup - alt.fan.lightfoot - we just yack about everything and anything...some gord, some not....follow the instructions at John's CHAT post earlier today and join in at 9 on Friday's.....

[Cathy]

Originally posted by charlene:
it's some folks who post here and some who post on the newsgroup - alt.fan.lightfoot - we just yack about everything and anything...some gord, some not....follow the instructions at John's CHAT post earlier today and join in at 9 on Friday's..... I thought the newsgroup was at alt.music.lightfoot

[charlene]

yep - that's it cathy!

this has been a test and you scored 100%
!!lol

[Cathy]

This is a test of the Emergency Broadcast System.
Do not adjust you're TV sets.

Does anyone still see these? It seems like since cable TV took over, and since the Soviet Union fell, they no longer air these EBS tests. I used to see them all the time, but possible it was because we lived near Loring Air Force Base, which was a nuclear facility.

Hey, when did this 2nd foot grow on my right leg?

[Iron]

Second foot on yer right leg!!!
Hows about shairing some of that stuff....

[Cathy]

I remember, as a teenager, I used to be scared to death of the Loring base. I was sure there would be a nuclear war, and the Russians would blow the base up, and it would take a 100 mile diameter of surrounding land with it.

I remember one time in the late 1970s when they evacuated the entire base for some reason. They lined all the people up in cars and they stretched from Fort Fairfield, to Caribou, to Presque Isle. I remember I asked one of the soldiers what the heck was going on, and he said, "I'm sorry. I'm not at liberty to say." Spooky.

Another time, they found a strange craft hovering over the base and sent F-11s up to shoo it away. It took off at warp speed and needless to say, the F-11s couldn't keep up. They blamed that on some kind of temperature inversion. Many people in the area saw it, and claim it was a UFO. I just know that I didn't dare look out my north bedroom window at night for about 2 years after that, because the aliens might show up or something. I'm telling you, living near that place traumatized most of us.

[johnfowles]

Originally posted by Cathy:
[QUOTE]Hey Iron, do you think you could share the Restless bridge tablature with me? I used to have it, but I lost it, and never learned to play it right. I play a version of it, but something is different.

Thanks, Hey Cathy Brian iron was quite correct the Restless tab is on my web site still (I found on a floppy having saved it back in about 1998 when Matthew Fifer's site still existed).. I must contact Mathew as from what I saved plus delving into the internet Archives Wayback Machine I have most of his site saved for prosperity and provisionally uploaded to my site already is the Restless tab plus a small wav file of Matthew himself playing it as linked from:-
http://www.johnfowles.org.uk/matthewfifer/Restlessbridgetab.htm
John Fowles

[Cathy]

Thanks, John.

[New 12 String Mike]

Hey Fellow String Talkers.

I'd like to recommend a book to each of you; CLAPTON'S GUITAR, by Allen St. John.

Any acoustic guitarist will cherish this book for years. It is the true story of Western Virginia luthier and guitarist Wayne Henderson and how he builds an OM guitar for Eric Clapton.

The book isn't really about Clapton at all, but about acoustic guitar playing and building, filled with Virginia mountain humor, (Something I grew up with,) and a great deal about guitar history and Martin Guitar lore.

You will come away from this read, moved, more knowledgable about guitar making and playing, (Henderson is a Bluegrass finger picker, teacher, recording artist, etc.,) than you will imagine.

A warning though. It will very hard to avoid a serious GAS attack for a new, or particularly old, Martin while reading this book

I really cannot recommend the book more highly for every guitar player here.

Enjoy it.

[Iron]

Thanks Mike,
Gloria loves shopping on E-bay,and I like to read.I will put this book on the E-bay list.

Someday,
Congrats and all that good stuff.You gotta be counting the days.I'm happy for You and Your friend(s).I'm sure You will have a great time when You see Gordon and the Guy's.You sure got something to look forward to,and this sure otta put "less important" stuff,in the shadows.In the meantime,keep on pickin and grinnin...

[johnfowles]

Originally posted by Iron:
Thanks Mike,
Gloria loves shopping on E-bay,and I like to read.I will put this book on the E-bay list.
OK for those unable to afford a real signature edition Martin D18GL
there is on ebay at:-
http://cgi.ebay.com/Gordon-Lightfoot-signature-edition-guitar-pick_W0QQitemZ7583967363QQcategoryZ104408QQrdZ1QQc mdZViewItem
a very nice guitar pick
http://i7.ebayimg.com/02/i/06/06/50/e0_12.JPG
http://i9.ebayimg.com/02/i/05/fb/9f/e9_12.JPG
for the relatively bargain price of $100.00
John Fowles
'Cause he's the best of all the auctioneers

[Iron]

Thank's John,
I did'nt see this one.You cannot have too many of these pickers.I have many,but I need more.[watchout for the bootlegs]
The 100 junior bacons is for buy it now.I put in a bid,what the heck. I got shnookered into payin about $25 for a couple when they first appeared on E-bay.The seller claimed that"they were only issued with the d-18GL guitars."That was a "crock-o-bull".
If my rememory serves me right,I think Val helped me out with gettin to the bottom of "The Great D-18GL Pick Caper". I took it upon meself to contact Martin to see what they had to say...."The picks were not included with the guitars,they were GIVEN out to dealers and Given out at the guitar conventions that were advertising the guitar.They[Martin] also sent me several of them.
I would hypothesize that You have one,or many.In the highly unlikely event that I am wrong,correct me,and I will rectify the situation promptly...

[New 12 String Mike]

Speaking of Martin guitars...

Saturday my wife and I stopped by the guitar shop. I wanted to pick up a copy of "The Sounding Board," Martin's newsletter. They are available free at the dealers. Honestly, that was ALL I intended to do.

Yeah, I was feeling some GAS after reading the "Clapton's Guitar" book, but I felt I had the syndrome under control. I was happy with my Alvy 12 and my DXM Martin and although I had read lots about rosewood guitars and pre-war Martins, etc., I was cool.

But since I was there...

I played a couple of guitars anyway.

Now my wife, being the daughter of a string musician knows something of wooden instruments and how they sound. She's a woodwind player herself, and I shared with her much of the Martin guitar lore from the Clapton book as I read it. She's been listening to me play for some time too.

It was then I picked up and began to play a D-28. Now for those of you that don't know, a Martin D- 28 has sorta been the "standard" for 6-string dreds since Martin began making them in 1931. Gord doesn't play one now, but did years ago. In fact, he's holding one on the Don Quixtote cover.

The guitar just sang as I played it, almost playing the notes before my fingers touched the strings. I was in heaven, but my wife...

Maybe some of the old Martin lore, from the book, had rubbed off on her, or she could really hear the difference as I played it. When the salesman checked back with us, SHE ASKED HIM THE PRICE!!!

I hardly said a thing.

The price was a good one, and half an hour later we walked out of the shop with a copy of the newsletter and a new Martin D-28.

I've been married to her for 30 years and yet she can still surprise me!

[Iron]

Mike,
I think You found yerself a keeper..
Have not got the book yet,got it on the "watch list"...
My local gas station don't carry Martin,but they got a lot of neet stuff that will work with D-18's..Whenever I do get the book,I'm gonna have Gloria read it,then we're gonna go for a ride.....
Congrats and enjoy

[talbot10]

I swear .... I will revive "Pillow Talk" if this thread does not end! :eek:
Bill

[Cathy]

Originally posted by talbot10:
I swear .... I will revive "Pillow Talk" if this thread does not end! :eek:
Bill Some of us don't want it to end, Bill. It's definitely my favorite thread.

[johnfowles]

Originally posted by someday:
String Talk Rocks! :D Sort of "how long is a piece of geetar string" eh??
John Fowles
and the obvious lyric quote
Tada Tada!!
Listen to the pictures flow
And follow the fingers where they go
Listen to the strings
They jangle and dangle
While the old guitar rings

[Iron]

Just suck it up Bill,then get yer pillow and sleep on it,then tell us bout yer dreams....

[charlene]

lol Billyboy!!!
:)
;)

[Iron]

Got a few picks sent Your way Bill.Figured it would make your day to see that String Talk did'nt fall off the bottom of the page.
String Talk Rocks....

[talbot10]

Originally posted by Iron:
Got a few picks sent Your way Bill.Figured it would make your day to see that String Talk did'nt fall off the bottom of the page.
String Talk Rocks.... Thanks Pal!
bill

[Cathy]

Originally posted by Iron:
Someday,
When You get the R-bridge down,let me know how it works,if it works as per Mathew's tabs.It is really easy to "finger out",but I just cannot get it to sound right. You mentioned a few of my favorite 12's,The Wreck,EMR,and one You did'nt mention,SoT. Just was wondering if Your adding any lead with yer strumming tunes?On the Wreck,Terry's lead is a bit tough with all the bends,at least for me,so I do a version just using the E and B strings,and a little sliding, on the 12.It ain't Terry's Gretch,but it does get the point across if your workin it solo.Let me know if Your interested in the easy tabs for the Wreck,and I'll find a way to get them to You.(hey Hon,can You come here for a minute..)

Bill,
Could You hook me up with the tabs for Terrys's lead in "Baby Step Back"?I've been tryin to work this out,off and on,for a couple years.Believe me,I need the tabs....
What is the "Chat"?. Is it Gord stuff or more oriented for you masters of the strings?{don't take that wrong,That's a compliment} I play my own version of Wreck, strummed in dropped D, with a little lead blended in. I like the low droning sound.
I think we should think about starting the old Yahoo guitar chat room. We used to go in there and play a couple times a week. I've gotten a lot of good playing ideas in there.

If anyone's interested in guitar chat, e-mail me at cathy@cathycowette.com.