His Voice is Gone!

[SGT]

I just listened to "A Painter Passing Through," and was horrified! Gordon Lightfoot's voice is no more. It doesn't even sound like the same person. It is really quite sad. What in the world happened? Was it the cigarettes? They ruined Jonie Mitchell's voice.

What do others think?

Ken

[Ken Theriot]

I just listened to "A Painter Passing Through," and was horrified! Gordon Lightfoot's voice is no more. It doesn't even sound like the same person. It is really quite sad. What in the world happened? Was it the cigarettes? They ruined Jonie Mitchell's voice.

What do others think?

Ken

[brink-]

This doesn't deserve an answer.

[BILLW]

Actually Ken, Mr. Lightfoot cannot actually sing anymore. His live performances are lip sync jobs done to tapes recorded in the 70s. All of us here at corfid are actually employed by Mr. Lightfoot to try and keep his legend alive.

Sharp eared guys like you make this a tough job. If I was you I would donate all my CDs to the local library and forget you ever heard the name Lightfoot.

Sorry you had to find out this way but it's for the general welfare. Plus we have to keep the megabucks rolling in or we'll all get fired.

Bill :)

P.S. If you don't want it I'll take your copy of 'Painter'.

[Cathy]

Oh, come on. Lighten up, folks. It's not like this has never been discussed before. There has been a change. There's no denying that. He's even mentioned it.

Ken, the first time I heard APPT I was shocked. I had to pull over to the side of the road. I remember saying, "No way! No way! This isn't Gordon!"

It's probably a combination of many things, with change in style being right up there at the top. He sounds less trained, and more like a country singer.

Keep listening to the CD. It will grow on you. There are hints of young Gord in there.

[TheWatchman]

Although his voice has changed, and not for the better, it's just the realities of life. Personally, I love his voice on Painter. No matter what, when you hear him sing, you know exactly who it is. It's not a good idea to compare a 30 year olds voice to someone who is almost 70 now. Be thankful for all the great music, past and present.

Besides, you just now got around to listening to Painter?lol Have you heard his latest release?

[RM]

Originally posted by BILLW:
All of us here at corfid are actually employed by Mr. Lightfoot to try and keep his legend alive.
I know it is unwise to discuss salaries in the workplace, but I was wondering if anyone here got a raise this year. I didn't.

[SGT]

Thanks Cathy! Watchman, Here is my story. I bought the CD around 1999 or so, when I wasn't a true fan. I was aware of the hits from when I was growing up, so I didn't really notice how really different the voice was. I honestly didn't listen to APPT that much. Then I started listening to his older stuff late last year. I got ahold of every album (I don't have Harmony yet, though). I feel like I just discovered this amazing treasure trove of fabulous music! I began learning some of my favorites (and have many more to learn) so I can sing and play them. Hence my earlier postings about the guitar parts. I remembered that I had APPT, and decided to give it another listen. Remember, I have been totally immersed in his earlier music for the past few months, listening every day. Then I popped in APPT and nearly fell out of my chair. For me, it was not a gradual thing. I just thought I would ask the group here what they thought about it. I know I was not imagining it.

BTW, it does not follow that the voice deteriorates with age. Tony Bennet is over 80 and sounds awesome!! Neil Diamond is 65 and he sounds the same too. How old are Pavarotti, Domingo, etc. That's why I thought it was so odd.

I apologize if it came across as irreverant.

Ken

[ April 09, 2007, 22:25: Message edited by: Ken Theriot ]

[Ken Theriot]

Thanks Cathy! Watchman, Here is my story. I bought the CD around 1999 or so, when I wasn't a true fan. I was aware of the hits from when I was growing up, so I didn't really notice how really different the voice was. I honestly didn't listen to APPT that much. Then I started listening to his older stuff late last year. I got ahold of every album (I don't have Harmony yet, though). I feel like I just discovered this amazing treasure trove of fabulous music! I began learning some of my favorites (and have many more to learn) so I can sing and play them. Hence my earlier postings about the guitar parts. I remembered that I had APPT, and decided to give it another listen. Remember, I have been totally immersed in his earlier music for the past few months, listening every day. Then I popped in APPT and nearly fell out of my chair. For me, it was not a gradual thing. I just thought I would ask the group here what they thought about it. I know I was not imagining it.

BTW, it does not follow that the voice deteriorates with age. Tony Bennet is over 80 and sounds awesome!! Neil Diamond is 65 and he sounds the same too. How old are Pavarotti, Domingo, etc. That's why I thought it was so odd.

I apologize if it came across as irreverant.

Ken

[ April 09, 2007, 22:25: Message edited by: Ken Theriot ]

[TheWatchman]

Ken,

No, you definitely weren't imagining the change in voice. Lightfoot had what I consider the best voice of all time (at least to me). I gotta tell ya though, I truly love his voice on Painter. It's thinner, but when you hear it, man you know it's Lightfoot.

His voice is thinner yet on Harmony but don't let that stop you from enjoying it. It has some fantastic writing on it and considering how and when it was released, makes it all the more special.

I understand what your getting at about voices not deteriorating with age, but in the case, for whatever reason, it did.

[BILLW]

Cathy if I lighten up anymore I'd float away. Ken I also listen to Tony Bennett and B.B.King and while the changes are there, they seem to have changed less. But I also listen to quite a few older rockers and folk guys and they have changed as much as Lightfoot. I loved APPT from play one but I had to listen a few times to get it in my head. It took my wife somewhat longer. Like Cathy suggested, keep listening, it will grow on you.

Bill :)

Did you catch the old dude from CCR on the Super Bowl or playoff shows ? Now that voice changed let me tell you. And I like his stuff...

[charlene]

I find that Tony Bennett has gone from a 'singer' to someone who 'recites' lyrics...not much singing when you see him live on stage apparently. Friends have gone to see him and altho they were thrilled to see him they were surprised at how his voice has changed and how much of a song he 'recites'..

The Lightfoot voice is different...but it's still him. Listen to old clips of him talking and then clips from recent interviews...even his talking voice is different but there's still the "Lightfoot' sound..Some of the songs are even more enjoyable for me because his voice has the "character" that fits the story he's telling..
IN Niagara Falls as at Massey, IYCRMM was top notch-there's a sense of more life lived, more heartache and perhaps regret in his rendition now..imho..

Geeze, he never mentioned any raise when he called..lol

[charlene]

I find that Tony Bennett has gone from a 'singer' to someone who 'recites' lyrics...not much singing when you see him live on stage apparently. Friends have gone to see him and altho they were thrilled to see him they were surprised at how his voice has changed and how much of a song he 'recites'..

The Lightfoot voice is different...but it's still him. Listen to old clips of him talking and then clips from recent interviews...even his talking voice is different but there's still the "Lightfoot' sound..Some of the songs are even more enjoyable for me because his voice has the "character" that fits the story he's telling..
IN Niagara Falls as at Massey, IYCRMM was top notch-there's a sense of more life lived, more heartache and perhaps regret in his rendition now..imho..

Geeze, he never mentioned any raise when he called..lol

[SGT]

He's supposed to be in Austin in July, according to the schedule on the .ca site. We totally plan on going. I feel so cheated by life that I never got to see Stan Rogers before he died. I don't want that to happen with Gordon Lightfoot...thin voice or not.

And I plan to pick up Harmony soon.

PS - Anybody familiar with Timothy B. Schmidt? He is the same age GL was when he recorded APPT. He sounds exactly the same as heever did!

[Ken Theriot]

He's supposed to be in Austin in July, according to the schedule on the .ca site. We totally plan on going. I feel so cheated by life that I never got to see Stan Rogers before he died. I don't want that to happen with Gordon Lightfoot...thin voice or not.

And I plan to pick up Harmony soon.

PS - Anybody familiar with Timothy B. Schmidt? He is the same age GL was when he recorded APPT. He sounds exactly the same as heever did!

[johnfowles]

Originally posted by charlene:
IGeeze, he never mentioned any raise when he called..lol Err Umm delete or edit this if you will Ma Dame Moderator but it seems to me more likely that he was the one getting the raise when he called you!!
Regarding the Lightfoot voice for myself, what it is worth, whilst I obviously still regret the change from the glorious 60's Gordsound even though his renditions of "The Last Time I Saw her" were still powerful as late as Folkfest 1987,
I can recall having much the same thought as Ken when I first heard the Waiting For You CD in 1994 (yes I know it was released in 1993, but not in the UK that I was aware of from my vigilent monitoring of countless record stores.It took the visit of a close friend to Toronto for a wedding in 1994, armed with a detailed listing of all my GL collection, and she finally found WFY and the
brilliant "original" 3-CD box set in Montreal's HMV store
http://www.johnfowles.org.uk/lightfoot/original-front.jpg

It took me years to even want to play WFY but now after hearing "Restless" live many times and after watching Tom (gahoendoe)'s brilliant "vidstory" at:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YO8iDiXrVC8
(Oh no you can't now watch it dang)
that song and its 1993 studio recording is probably top of my favourites listing.
I would go so far as to say tbat with certain exceptions (Cotton Jenny in particular)
Gord's current "lived in" voice actually improves many of his songs.
(Am I the only one who wishes he would instigate a policy of adding one more rerotated number to his repertoire for every concert to bring back the element of surprise??
I guess that is enough of a though provoking suggestion to merit a new topic of its own)
Getting back to the immediate subject matter
I well remember the day (25 June 1998) when I was working out the installation of a boiler flue in a new office block (Princess House at Hayes Middlesex right next to Heathrow's runways since you ask) and with some recently new found knowledge gleaned fromm this wonderful new resource called the internet, I phoned the HMV record store on Oxford Street London , and finding that they had but one copy of APPT I asked them to put it aside and high tailed it the many miles in from the London Airport area,but alas not having at that time a CD player in my car I then dashed 130 miles back home and eagerly played it. Just like Ken I was initially bitterly disappointed and save for the great Drifters have never really got to like this album.
As Cathy sagaciously opined
"Keep listening to the CD. It will grow on you."
and as Al wisely counselled
"Be thankful for all the great music, past and present."

[ April 10, 2007, 09:34: Message edited by: johnfowles ]

[johnfowles]

Originally posted by charlene:
IGeeze, he never mentioned any raise when he called..lol Err Umm delete or edit this if you will Ma Dame Moderator but it seems to me more likely that he was the one getting the raise when he called you!!
Regarding the Lightfoot voice for myself, what it is worth, whilst I obviously still regret the change from the glorious 60's Gordsound even though his renditions of "The Last Time I Saw her" were still powerful as late as Folkfest 1987,
I can recall having much the same thought as Ken when I first heard the Waiting For You CD in 1994 (yes I know it was released in 1993, but not in the UK that I was aware of from my vigilent monitoring of countless record stores.It took the visit of a close friend to Toronto for a wedding in 1994, armed with a detailed listing of all my GL collection, and she finally found WFY and the
brilliant "original" 3-CD box set in Montreal's HMV store
http://www.johnfowles.org.uk/lightfoot/original-front.jpg

It took me years to even want to play WFY but now after hearing "Restless" live many times and after watching Tom (gahoendoe)'s brilliant "vidstory" at:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YO8iDiXrVC8
(Oh no you can't now watch it dang)
that song and its 1993 studio recording is probably top of my favourites listing.
I would go so far as to say tbat with certain exceptions (Cotton Jenny in particular)
Gord's current "lived in" voice actually improves many of his songs.
(Am I the only one who wishes he would instigate a policy of adding one more rerotated number to his repertoire for every concert to bring back the element of surprise??
I guess that is enough of a though provoking suggestion to merit a new topic of its own)
Getting back to the immediate subject matter
I well remember the day (25 June 1998) when I was working out the installation of a boiler flue in a new office block (Princess House at Hayes Middlesex right next to Heathrow's runways since you ask) and with some recently new found knowledge gleaned fromm this wonderful new resource called the internet, I phoned the HMV record store on Oxford Street London , and finding that they had but one copy of APPT I asked them to put it aside and high tailed it the many miles in from the London Airport area,but alas not having at that time a CD player in my car I then dashed 130 miles back home and eagerly played it. Just like Ken I was initially bitterly disappointed and save for the great Drifters have never really got to like this album.
As Cathy sagaciously opined
"Keep listening to the CD. It will grow on you."
and as Al wisely counselled
"Be thankful for all the great music, past and present."

[ April 10, 2007, 09:34: Message edited by: johnfowles ]

[charlene]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ken Theriot:
He's supposed to be in Austin in July, according to the schedule on the .ca site.

June 22 - Lightfoot in Austin.
http://www.lightfoot.ca/2007.htm

[charlene]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ken Theriot:
He's supposed to be in Austin in July, according to the schedule on the .ca site.

June 22 - Lightfoot in Austin.
http://www.lightfoot.ca/2007.htm

[Sundown17]

Originally posted by RMD:
quote:Originally posted by BILLW:
All of us here at corfid are actually employed by Mr. Lightfoot to try and keep his legend alive.
I know it is unwise to discuss salaries in the workplace, but I was wondering if anyone here got a raise this year. I didn't. [/QUOTE]You got paid? :( Guess my check is in the mail. ;)

[Shutup and Deal, I'm Losin']

Originally posted by BILLW:
Actually Ken, Mr. Lightfoot cannot actually sing anymore. His live performances are lip sync jobs done to tapes recorded in the 70s.
Bill :)

. Whoa whoa whoa! I knew his voice had grown raggid over the years, but I didn't know it was to the point to where he actually couldn't sing period!!! :eek: :eek:


And Ken,if you're just now listening to A Painter, you should listen to Harmony. The voice actually sounds slightly better on that album. (Although the songs are not quite as good as on A Painter.)

[RM]

Originally posted by Ken Theriot:
We totally plan on going. I feel so cheated by life that I never got to see Stan Rogers before he died. I don't want that to happen with Gordon Lightfoot...thin voice or not.
I would suggest you get the best seats you can possibly afford. From your remarks, I sense his music 'hits home' for you, and to see it come alive with his presence and the great work of the band....well....see for yourself.

[johnfowles]

Originally posted by Shutup and Deal, I'm Losin':
And Ken,if you're just now listening to A Painter, you should listen to Harmony. The voice actually sounds slightly better on that album. (Although the songs are not quite as good as on A Painter.) [/QB]Amazing how the tastes of Lightheads differ.
To my mind (and ear come to that!) the Harmony album's selection of songs is infinitely superior to APPT especially my constant favourite that Gord wonderfully and rarely sang in Vegas in April 2005 (golly 2 years ago already) at my personal request and memorably introduced it as "here she comes,Inspiration Lady and it's for John and Susan,John and Susan"
Ken could get a very good idea of this masterpiece from the fabulous video which is still viewable on the Linus site at
http://www.linusentertainment.com/store/videos.php?artist=Gordon%20Lightfoot
which somewhat amusingly now links to the uploaded video on the ubiquitos youtube
where a search for inspiration lady produces
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdwMoKJ6C4g
which was apparently uploaded by none other than
Linusentertainment, which makes me wonder a bit
http://www.johnfowles.org.uk/images/inspiration_lady_video_still.jpg
still from the video
http://www.johnfowles.org.uk/images/gordonlightfoot.inspirationlady.jpg
alleged promotional CD Single for IL as found on ebay
I also recommend that Ken listens to the short samples of all 11 tracks at the amazon site:-
http://www.amazon.com/Harmony-Gordon-Lightfoot/dp/B000231JJ6
not all the reviews there are fully complimentary but the final one says it all really
"His lyrics still send chills and speak to the heart and mind. The music goes hand in hand with those well-crafted words. In many ways, I think this is one of the best albums he has given us. It truly is a gift. Thank you, Gordon."

[johnfowles]

Originally posted by Shutup and Deal, I'm Losin':
And Ken,if you're just now listening to A Painter, you should listen to Harmony. The voice actually sounds slightly better on that album. (Although the songs are not quite as good as on A Painter.) [/QB]Amazing how the tastes of Lightheads differ.
To my mind (and ear come to that!) the Harmony album's selection of songs is infinitely superior to APPT especially my constant favourite that Gord wonderfully and rarely sang in Vegas in April 2005 (golly 2 years ago already) at my personal request and memorably introduced it as "here she comes,Inspiration Lady and it's for John and Susan,John and Susan"
Ken could get a very good idea of this masterpiece from the fabulous video which is still viewable on the Linus site at
http://www.linusentertainment.com/store/videos.php?artist=Gordon%20Lightfoot
which somewhat amusingly now links to the uploaded video on the ubiquitos youtube
where a search for inspiration lady produces
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdwMoKJ6C4g
which was apparently uploaded by none other than
Linusentertainment, which makes me wonder a bit
http://www.johnfowles.org.uk/images/inspiration_lady_video_still.jpg
still from the video
http://www.johnfowles.org.uk/images/gordonlightfoot.inspirationlady.jpg
alleged promotional CD Single for IL as found on ebay
I also recommend that Ken listens to the short samples of all 11 tracks at the amazon site:-
http://www.amazon.com/Harmony-Gordon-Lightfoot/dp/B000231JJ6
not all the reviews there are fully complimentary but the final one says it all really
"His lyrics still send chills and speak to the heart and mind. The music goes hand in hand with those well-crafted words. In many ways, I think this is one of the best albums he has given us. It truly is a gift. Thank you, Gordon."

[BILLW]

Originally posted by Ken Theriot:
PS - Anybody familiar with Timothy B. Schmidt? He is the same age GL was when he recorded APPT. He sounds exactly the same as heever did! Ya gotta love Tim, Timmy, or Timothy depending on which name he liked best at the time. I've got every Poco album that he did plus every Eagles album that he played on. But he's nowhere near Gord's age is he ?

Bill :)

[Auburn Annie]

Born October 10 1947, nine years younger.

[Auburn Annie]

Born October 10 1947, nine years younger.

[Cathy]

My story's much the same as yours, Ken. I didn't own any of the CDs Lightfoot put out after The Wreck became a hit. I didn't know how he sounded, if he was still singing, or even if he was still alive. Then I somehow became e-mail pals with Val Magee and found out he was still at it, had put out many CDs after Wreck, and was in the process of releasing APPT. I found out the release date, and talked the clerk at a local music shop into selling it to me a day early, so I could get the jump on everyone. I remember ripping the plastic off and putting it in the car CD player and driving home in a complete stupor!

I didn't listen to it again for about two weeks. One Saturday I gave it another listen and started hearing more of the old Gord... then another listen, and another, and each time, it sounded more and more like the '70s Gord.

To tell you the truth, though, it's one of my least favorite Lightfoot CDs. Harmony is the better of the two.

[SGT]

Originally posted by Auburn Annie:
Born October 10 1947, nine years younger. About the same age now as Gordon was when he recorded APPT.

Ken

[Ken Theriot]

Originally posted by Auburn Annie:
Born October 10 1947, nine years younger. About the same age now as Gordon was when he recorded APPT.

Ken

[SGT]

Cathy,

I agree that somehow his voice does sound better on Harmony than on APPT. I watched the IL video and listened to some of the clips on itunes. The human body is an amazing thing.

I'm going to get the best seast I can...as soon as they go on sale!

Ken

[Ken Theriot]

Cathy,

I agree that somehow his voice does sound better on Harmony than on APPT. I watched the IL video and listened to some of the clips on itunes. The human body is an amazing thing.

I'm going to get the best seast I can...as soon as they go on sale!

Ken

[brink-]

These kinds of topics always freak me out, since both of Gord's kids and his employees check out the web.
As it has been said before MOST of us would pay to hear gord recite the phone book....no matter what his voice sounds like. (btw I think Bill W has earned a raise).

[Borderstone]

I think Ken's approach in his 1st message came off a bit brash or harsh and read as a highly crictical & negative message.

I'm glad he cleared it up though. :) Ken,I thankfully did hear his hits growing up but his later voice didn't shock me too much,despite the fact it had only been 15 years since East Of Midnight in 2001,when I really "tuned in".

What did surprise me the most was,how he looked when he came out on stage on Aug. 6th,2001! For a brief moment I thought,"Is this a Lightfoot tribute"? It was he though.

As for the voice,it's really not that bad. On Live In Reno,he did a wonderful,"Song For A Winter's Night". Almost like the original. :)

When I saw him in January,he totally blew away the audience with "Baby Step Back" and "Sit Down Young Stranger.

[RM]

Originally posted by brink-:
(btw I think Bill W has earned a raise). I'm with you.....I thought his angle was hilarious.

Did you get a raise ?

[bjm7777]

I think gordon could yell from a megaphone with a a voicetube in his throat . There does come a time when the appreciation is the beauty, and not the used to be. Last I checked his voice it is "Beautiful". Wouldn't any one of us love to hear Elvis one more time.

[Fitzy]

I think gordon could yell from a megaphone with a a voicetube in his throat . There does come a time when the appreciation is the beauty, and not the used to be. Last I checked his voice it is "Beautiful". Wouldn't any one of us love to hear Elvis one more time.

[BILLW]

Originally posted by RMD:
quote:Originally posted by brink-:
(btw I think Bill W has earned a raise). I'm with you.....I thought his angle was hilarious.

Did you get a raise ? [/QUOTE]Well thank you. Of course I was trying to have some fun. Long time posters will tell you I'm only really annoyed when I use the phrase "pound salt...".

and really anyone who can appreciate Timothy B. is OK in my book.

And Borderstone is right, once he starts singing now you forget about everything else, it's just great he can still do what he does.

Bill :)

[Cathy]

Originally posted by Ken Theriot:
Cathy,

I agree that somehow his voice does sound better on Harmony than on APPT. I watched the IL video and listened to some of the clips on itunes. The human body is an amazing thing.

I'm going to get the best seast I can...as soon as they go on sale!

Ken Definitely go to the concert, Ken. He still puts on a heck of a show. Or, at least, he did last time I attended one. I'll make it to another one of these days, come h*ll or high water.

[brink-]

Originally posted by RMD:
quote:Originally posted by brink-:
(btw I think Bill W has earned a raise). I'm with you.....I thought his angle was hilarious.

Did you get a raise ? [/QUOTE]I'll tell you if you tell me.

[JeffreyS821]

Beginning with 1983's "Salute", I could notice the change in his voice. Isn't that when he stopped drinking? Last year, I went to see him in New Jersey and he was horrible. The band was as tight as ever but Lightfoot was straining to hit the high notes to the point where I was cringing. He should do what most older singers do, lower the keys to the songs. Quite simple. On the live DVD, you can see it in his face that he is reaching for notes that he just cannot hit anymore. I was never much of a fan of "APPT" but I do like "Waiting For You" and many tracks from "Harmony". The guy is 68 years old. He's not Tony Bennett and vice versa. Everybody's voices are different.

[gretschviking1967]

Beginning with 1983's "Salute", I could notice the change in his voice. Isn't that when he stopped drinking? Last year, I went to see him in New Jersey and he was horrible. The band was as tight as ever but Lightfoot was straining to hit the high notes to the point where I was cringing. He should do what most older singers do, lower the keys to the songs. Quite simple. On the live DVD, you can see it in his face that he is reaching for notes that he just cannot hit anymore. I was never much of a fan of "APPT" but I do like "Waiting For You" and many tracks from "Harmony". The guy is 68 years old. He's not Tony Bennett and vice versa. Everybody's voices are different.

[SGT]

What is Seligball?

-K

[Ken Theriot]

What is Seligball?

-K

[johnfowles]

Originally posted by Ken Theriot:
What is Seligball?

-K The obvious answer Ken is it is something that needs to be eliminated
by a dalek perhaps ??
http://regmedia.co.uk/2004/08/09/dancing-dalek.gif
googling for Seligball
reveals somewhat obcscure connections to Baseball a.k.a. Rounders
and adding "info" produced a solitary result on a baseball forum
also on
http://www.ballparkguys.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=30;t=026059
I read
"It's dumb and it sucks. Let them play the damn things in November in Venezuela and see how many players show up when they have to choose between winterball and Seligball. Right now the games mean nothing and could cost a player his career or cost the team and city that is paying him whatever chance they may have had to improve or succeed.

How long will it be before A-Rod or Willis or someone of that ilk blows out an elbow or knee and will be lost for the
season or has a career dissapate. What will Sellig and everyone else's reaction to Bud's games be then? "
that gave a clue that it was something to do with somebody called "Sellig"
but http://www.sellig.net
despite its title
"Sellig.net : le site officiel"
was no help at all at all
but...
"Sellig was born on June 29, 1969 in Lyon."
http://www.sellig.net/goodies/signature01.jpg
But perhaps the Norwegian guitar player can elucidate better??

[johnfowles]

Originally posted by Ken Theriot:
What is Seligball?

-K The obvious answer Ken is it is something that needs to be eliminated
by a dalek perhaps ??
http://regmedia.co.uk/2004/08/09/dancing-dalek.gif
googling for Seligball
reveals somewhat obcscure connections to Baseball a.k.a. Rounders
and adding "info" produced a solitary result on a baseball forum
also on
http://www.ballparkguys.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=30;t=026059
I read
"It's dumb and it sucks. Let them play the damn things in November in Venezuela and see how many players show up when they have to choose between winterball and Seligball. Right now the games mean nothing and could cost a player his career or cost the team and city that is paying him whatever chance they may have had to improve or succeed.

How long will it be before A-Rod or Willis or someone of that ilk blows out an elbow or knee and will be lost for the
season or has a career dissapate. What will Sellig and everyone else's reaction to Bud's games be then? "
that gave a clue that it was something to do with somebody called "Sellig"
but http://www.sellig.net
despite its title
"Sellig.net : le site officiel"
was no help at all at all
but...
"Sellig was born on June 29, 1969 in Lyon."
http://www.sellig.net/goodies/signature01.jpg
But perhaps the Norwegian guitar player can elucidate better??

[RM]

I believe Seligball is a reference to Bud Selig, the current commisioner of baseball. The thread you linked to was regarding the World Baseball Classic, which he helped organize.

But the term 'Seligball' may be an umbrella under which to voice dislike for all of Selig's decisions.

Or.....I may be completely wrong.

[ April 11, 2007, 16:21: Message edited by: RMD ]

[charlene]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RMD:
But the term 'Seligball' may be an umbrella under which to voice dislike for all of Selig's decisions.[QUOTE]

I'm sure you're correct - He's not a well-liked fellow..lol

[ April 11, 2007, 18:14: Message edited by: charlene ]

[charlene]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RMD:
But the term 'Seligball' may be an umbrella under which to voice dislike for all of Selig's decisions.[QUOTE]

I'm sure you're correct - He's not a well-liked fellow..lol

[ April 11, 2007, 18:14: Message edited by: charlene ]

[Borderstone]

You know,getting back on topic here by the way,I recall someone on here saying they'd no longer go to Gordon's concerts because of his voice.

Which I think is a bit hypocritcial. A huge fan for years but just because its "not exactly the same" anymore,they decide to just live in the past.

Now granted,those with a history with Gord may long for "the voice" but the truest fans stick around.

I wish I had listned sooner to those few Lightfoot LP's I had in the 90s. I would have more than likely wanted to hear more and seen him in concert sooner. Even when I had "GG" in the 80s. I could have seen and heard him sing in his original way.

Being young though,I listened to the "popular" acts of the time and thought,
"Heck,if they can't get more than 10 hits,the rest of their stuff must be lame!" Which is what I thought in Gordon's case.

Glad I grew up and realized better,but I know he does what he loves and he does what he can and I think he does it,still,very well. :)

[JeffreyS821]

Originally posted by RMD:
I believe Seligball is a reference to Bud Selig, the current commisioner of baseball. The thread you linked to was regarding the World Baseball Classic, which he helped organize.

But the term 'Seligball' may be an umbrella under which to voice dislike for all of Selig's decisions.

Or.....I may be completely wrong. You are correct RMD! That guy ruined Baseball but that's another subject for another forum.

[gretschviking1967]

Originally posted by RMD:
I believe Seligball is a reference to Bud Selig, the current commisioner of baseball. The thread you linked to was regarding the World Baseball Classic, which he helped organize.

But the term 'Seligball' may be an umbrella under which to voice dislike for all of Selig's decisions.

Or.....I may be completely wrong. You are correct RMD! That guy ruined Baseball but that's another subject for another forum.

[JeffreyS821]

Originally posted by Borderstone:
You know,getting back on topic here by the way,I recall someone on here saying they'd no longer go to Gordon's concerts because of his voice.

Which I think is a bit hypocritcial. A huge fan for years but just because its "not exactly the same" anymore,they decide to just live in the past.

Now granted,those with a history with Gord may long for "the voice" but the truest fans stick around.

I wish I had listned sooner to those few Lightfoot LP's I had in the 90s. I would have more than likely wanted to hear more and seen him in concert sooner. Even when I had "GG" in the 80s. I could have seen and heard him sing in his original way.

Being young though,I listened to the "popular" acts of the time and thought,
"Heck,if they can't get more than 10 hits,the rest of their stuff must be lame!" Which is what I thought in Gordon's case.

Glad I grew up and realized better,but I know he does what he loves and he does what he can and I think he does it,still,very well. :) Oh there's that dreaded term "true fans" or "truest fans". Makes it sound like a guilt trip or something! I am not too enamoured by his voice these days either but I still like his songwriting and his band is very tight. I LOVE the sound those guys get and the shows are still very cozy. As I've stated earlier, the man is 68 years old. All he needs to do is lower the key to the songs and stop trying to sing in registers that he no longer can reach. Just bring them down a full step and I'll bet you he'd sound a heck of a lot better.

[gretschviking1967]

Originally posted by Borderstone:
You know,getting back on topic here by the way,I recall someone on here saying they'd no longer go to Gordon's concerts because of his voice.

Which I think is a bit hypocritcial. A huge fan for years but just because its "not exactly the same" anymore,they decide to just live in the past.

Now granted,those with a history with Gord may long for "the voice" but the truest fans stick around.

I wish I had listned sooner to those few Lightfoot LP's I had in the 90s. I would have more than likely wanted to hear more and seen him in concert sooner. Even when I had "GG" in the 80s. I could have seen and heard him sing in his original way.

Being young though,I listened to the "popular" acts of the time and thought,
"Heck,if they can't get more than 10 hits,the rest of their stuff must be lame!" Which is what I thought in Gordon's case.

Glad I grew up and realized better,but I know he does what he loves and he does what he can and I think he does it,still,very well. :) Oh there's that dreaded term "true fans" or "truest fans". Makes it sound like a guilt trip or something! I am not too enamoured by his voice these days either but I still like his songwriting and his band is very tight. I LOVE the sound those guys get and the shows are still very cozy. As I've stated earlier, the man is 68 years old. All he needs to do is lower the key to the songs and stop trying to sing in registers that he no longer can reach. Just bring them down a full step and I'll bet you he'd sound a heck of a lot better.

[RM]

Originally posted by gretschviking1967:
All he needs to do is lower the key to the songs and stop trying to sing in registers that he no longer can reach. Just bring them down a full step and I'll bet you he'd sound a heck of a lot better. This has been discussed before and at the time I thought it might cause problems for the band. Others disagreed. Borrowing from CHar's interview, Lightfoot said :

"And as far as playing the music, we love playing the music, the keys are weird but we don’t care!"

So, the question is : Would it be wise to make weird even weirder, since they've been doing it a certain way for so long ?

[JeffreyS821]

Originally posted by RMD:
quote:Originally posted by gretschviking1967:
All he needs to do is lower the key to the songs and stop trying to sing in registers that he no longer can reach. Just bring them down a full step and I'll bet you he'd sound a heck of a lot better. This has been discussed before and at the time I thought it might cause problems for the band. Others disagreed. Borrowing from CHar's interview, Lightfoot said :

"And as far as playing the music, we love playing the music, the keys are weird but we don’t care!"

So, the question is : Would it be wise to make weird even weirder, since they've been doing it a certain way for so long ? [/QUOTE]These guys are professionals. To lower the key would be like tying shoelaces.

[gretschviking1967]

Originally posted by RMD:
quote:Originally posted by gretschviking1967:
All he needs to do is lower the key to the songs and stop trying to sing in registers that he no longer can reach. Just bring them down a full step and I'll bet you he'd sound a heck of a lot better. This has been discussed before and at the time I thought it might cause problems for the band. Others disagreed. Borrowing from CHar's interview, Lightfoot said :

"And as far as playing the music, we love playing the music, the keys are weird but we don’t care!"

So, the question is : Would it be wise to make weird even weirder, since they've been doing it a certain way for so long ? [/QUOTE]These guys are professionals. To lower the key would be like tying shoelaces.

[RM]

quote:Originally posted by gretschviking1967:

These guys are professionals. To lower the key would be like tying shoelaces. [/QUOTE]My logic (which is far from flawless) gets divided on this subject. On one side it tells me you are absolutely correct. Piece of cake.

The other side asks "Are you telling me that Lightfoot hasn't thought of this. That at some point he didn't think to say 'Guys, I can't hit that note anymore. Let's lower it a notch'; and that no one in the band has made that suggestion ?".

There must be a reason.

[JeffreyS821]

Yeah. Laziness! J/K! LOL!

[gretschviking1967]

Yeah. Laziness! J/K! LOL!

[talbot10]

Originally posted by Ken Theriot:
I just listened to "A Painter Passing Through," and was horrified! Gordon Lightfoot's voice is no more. It doesn't even sound like the same person. It is really quite sad. What in the world happened? Was it the cigarettes? They ruined Jonie Mitchell's voice.

What do others think?

Ken Ken,
Gord still has one of the most provacative voices
around. He is an amazing artist. I happen to really love APPT. The songs are outstanding in my humble opinion. It is obviously all a matter of opinion which albums are the best. It is interesting to note that despite a considrable amount of panning even on this apparantly Gord loving site, critically if you read many of the reviews of the day in 1998 (ex. goldmine, mojo ... this album is very respected). Way to go Charo for that inteview!!
Bill Hall

[talbot10]

this album is very respected). Way to go Charo for that inteview!!
Bill Hall [/QB][/QUOTE]


Dear Lord!!! I meant Charzo!!!

[charlene]

Originally posted by talbot10:
this album is very respected). Way to go Charo for that inteview!!
Bill Hall Dear Lord!!! I meant Charzo!!! [/QB][/QUOTE]

COOCHIE COOCHIE BILLYBOY!
lol
;)
CHar
Char
Charo
Charzo

Diane will have big hugs for you (and Frank!)

[charlene]

Originally posted by talbot10:
this album is very respected). Way to go Charo for that inteview!!
Bill Hall Dear Lord!!! I meant Charzo!!! [/QB][/QUOTE]

COOCHIE COOCHIE BILLYBOY!
lol
;)
CHar
Char
Charo
Charzo

Diane will have big hugs for you (and Frank!)

[Ginny]

Boy this topic sure is generating controversy and I realize that Ken is relatively new on the board here as opposed to many of us faithfuls who have taken the musical package of Gordon Lightfoot along for a year and many. And it's nice to hear what folks have to say, especially new voices. And more so, it seems evident that Ken recently discovered the vast legacy of material that Gord has accomplished. Now for those of us who have followed the voice through over the years, the "Painter Passing Through" issue would sail completely over our heads. When I listen to that song, (and I'm just beginning to realize just what a great piece of work it really is) I hear the voice of a guy in my own age group who's still out there strutting his stuff and yes, his voice has aged and survived a near death experience even, still there's no shortage of audiences who travel from many parts of the world to get to see and hear him perform. But if I can try and make a comparison here; when I travel to Toronto and I get to see my grandchildren after not seeing them for a period of time, well, yes there's an amazing difference in everything about them. I realize it may be a wild comparison but I know for sure that, based on my own health experiences not all of our parts are going to be in top performance at the the same time as we age. But we take what we have and work with it the best way we can. Sure hope I get to move on successfully to a new paragraph here and comment on the subject of the lowering of the voice. Are we on here guys? Cool! OK. Now, if you listen to "Remember Me" on the "Songbook" collection, the low notes that Gord hits there, well, to me they are at the bottom of his range. So it seems he has more difficulty with the lower notes than he does with the high ones. Considering that, if you take an epic piece of work like "The Canadian Railroad Trilogy," well I honestly can't see any possibly that the key for that work could could be lowered any because of the demand that it requires on the voice range. He's a master though at substituting harmony notes in place of the ones that he's not sure of. It seems as well that his gift is a tenor voice as opposed to any other. But Gord being Gord he can go out there and sing it any way he wants to and there never will be a shortage of folks lining up to watch this guy in action. Anyone who wants to try and make a go of it the music business, study the master and you'll learn a thing or two. Thanks, Ron J. (Guess the paragraph thing didn't work out)

[ahmamike]

I first heard Mr Lightfoot and his music when my friend dragged me to one of his concerts out here in California in February and I was absolutely amazed by his music, stage persona and yes his voice (!) and all the feeling he puts into each and every song. I've been hooked ever since and still working on getting all his Cds. " Painter" is one I have not got yet, but I do have Harmony which I've been listening to non stop for three weeks in the car now and I think he sounds great on that one.
The people who don't go to his concerts anymore because his voice changed, like Borderstone mentioned in his post, are missing out big time in my opinion. I for my part can't wait for June to come around, which is when I'm going to Houston to see him again.
:)

[Kerstin]

I first heard Mr Lightfoot and his music when my friend dragged me to one of his concerts out here in California in February and I was absolutely amazed by his music, stage persona and yes his voice (!) and all the feeling he puts into each and every song. I've been hooked ever since and still working on getting all his Cds. " Painter" is one I have not got yet, but I do have Harmony which I've been listening to non stop for three weeks in the car now and I think he sounds great on that one.
The people who don't go to his concerts anymore because his voice changed, like Borderstone mentioned in his post, are missing out big time in my opinion. I for my part can't wait for June to come around, which is when I'm going to Houston to see him again.
:)

[Dream Street Rose]

Hi Kerstin,

Great post and I agree with you. Gordon's persona, voice and all the feeling he puts into each song has been with him at every concert. Yes, maybe his voice is not as strong as it was 30 years ago but he is still an awesome singer, poet, perfomer and much more.

Looking forward to hopefully seeing you in Houston. :)

[charlene]

When he changed the end of BEAUTIFUL in his concerts for the first time I was shocked...It took many more times of hearing it to really be comfortable with it tho.
He took those last notes that he wasn't perfecting any longer and made a change to keep the song in the setlist.
The song now has a different texture with that change.
For me it has changed the specific words of "you're beautiful" from an all out declaration of feelings in a new love, to having a more wistful tone - it's a love with a history now, perhaps a love that is gone but the sentiment is the same.
With age and time the message is just relayed differently.

[ April 13, 2007, 21:14: Message edited by: charlene ]

[charlene]

When he changed the end of BEAUTIFUL in his concerts for the first time I was shocked...It took many more times of hearing it to really be comfortable with it tho.
He took those last notes that he wasn't perfecting any longer and made a change to keep the song in the setlist.
The song now has a different texture with that change.
For me it has changed the specific words of "you're beautiful" from an all out declaration of feelings in a new love, to having a more wistful tone - it's a love with a history now, perhaps a love that is gone but the sentiment is the same.
With age and time the message is just relayed differently.

[ April 13, 2007, 21:14: Message edited by: charlene ]

[Station Master]

interesting stuff, well, deb, the topic sure has got alot of attention deservedly or not, eh? lol;)

the latter sub-topic of key change is one I'd love to chat amongst this group in person (instead of all this typing, cos I really don't like tying at all, i'm a hunt & pecker, agh)

i've always consider the choice of key which the song is written recorded in, as part of the composition of song itself...i believe that an artist is going to cover a song then they should do it in the written key or just leave it alone - right from the intro onward, if i hear the first few notes in a different key than i grew accustomed to then it just doesn't sound 'right'- that's just my opinion and it's not a practical one - anyhow, does anyone know if Gord has changed keys of songs he's done live vs. studio versions?

i'm not sure what songs are being referred to for key change recommendation? I agree that he needn't bother doing the high notes at the end of SFAWN (like he attempted on MMM live) - last time I heard him do that live he didn't, as I recall

as Char and Ron were saying re: opting for alternative melody notes such as in Beautiful live, I really think this is the answer...as long as it's not a drastic change, I really like when he or any artist delivers new phrasings or melody notes when performing live...actually, I love that, and that's a large part of what I'm there for and to hear live arrangements...odd that I'm flexible on any melody and phrasings but stubborn about key changes, eh? lol

but some artists go totally overboard on changing their live versions of songs, eh...sometimes I just shake my head and say "what was THAT!???"

hey, if keys were to be changed, shouldn't they songs be transposed up and not down a notch in most cases? what songs are you referring to gretschviking1967? i think the ability to hit low or high notes is more about projection/diaphram limitations than his voice changing over which may or may not be related to smoking...i actually thought smoking makes the voice lower...the change is probably natural or related to other bad habits from the past...anyhow, like i said, i think he delivers a song 'better' these days and chooses more interesting songs to sing..there's a bunch of "hits" Gord still performs that I could totally do without hearing live but that they are must plays obviously and good catchy tunes

oh, I agree about the true and truest fan terms, ugh

i could ramble more but i doubt many woudl make it thru my 2 cents already...i gotta say that although i bypass lots of longwinded posts and threads, that I have read this one and loved reading everyone's take from one extreme to another...100% agree with RMD, that Gord HAS thought about IT - and it's obvious that i 100% disagree that his voice is NO more and I'm sorry to hear that there won't be a new album of fresh material delivered in Gord's WFY, APPT, Harmony voice...but i suppose i can get by with rotating the small handful of existing recordings he's got out there and more live stuff and possibly more gems from the vault, pleeeease:)

[jj]

interesting stuff, well, deb, the topic sure has got alot of attention deservedly or not, eh? lol;)

the latter sub-topic of key change is one I'd love to chat amongst this group in person (instead of all this typing, cos I really don't like tying at all, i'm a hunt & pecker, agh)

i've always consider the choice of key which the song is written recorded in, as part of the composition of song itself...i believe that an artist is going to cover a song then they should do it in the written key or just leave it alone - right from the intro onward, if i hear the first few notes in a different key than i grew accustomed to then it just doesn't sound 'right'- that's just my opinion and it's not a practical one - anyhow, does anyone know if Gord has changed keys of songs he's done live vs. studio versions?

i'm not sure what songs are being referred to for key change recommendation? I agree that he needn't bother doing the high notes at the end of SFAWN (like he attempted on MMM live) - last time I heard him do that live he didn't, as I recall

as Char and Ron were saying re: opting for alternative melody notes such as in Beautiful live, I really think this is the answer...as long as it's not a drastic change, I really like when he or any artist delivers new phrasings or melody notes when performing live...actually, I love that, and that's a large part of what I'm there for and to hear live arrangements...odd that I'm flexible on any melody and phrasings but stubborn about key changes, eh? lol

but some artists go totally overboard on changing their live versions of songs, eh...sometimes I just shake my head and say "what was THAT!???"

hey, if keys were to be changed, shouldn't they songs be transposed up and not down a notch in most cases? what songs are you referring to gretschviking1967? i think the ability to hit low or high notes is more about projection/diaphram limitations than his voice changing over which may or may not be related to smoking...i actually thought smoking makes the voice lower...the change is probably natural or related to other bad habits from the past...anyhow, like i said, i think he delivers a song 'better' these days and chooses more interesting songs to sing..there's a bunch of "hits" Gord still performs that I could totally do without hearing live but that they are must plays obviously and good catchy tunes

oh, I agree about the true and truest fan terms, ugh

i could ramble more but i doubt many woudl make it thru my 2 cents already...i gotta say that although i bypass lots of longwinded posts and threads, that I have read this one and loved reading everyone's take from one extreme to another...100% agree with RMD, that Gord HAS thought about IT - and it's obvious that i 100% disagree that his voice is NO more and I'm sorry to hear that there won't be a new album of fresh material delivered in Gord's WFY, APPT, Harmony voice...but i suppose i can get by with rotating the small handful of existing recordings he's got out there and more live stuff and possibly more gems from the vault, pleeeease:)

[Cathy]

Originally posted by gretschviking1967:
quote:Originally posted by RMD:
quote:Originally posted by gretschviking1967:
All he needs to do is lower the key to the songs and stop trying to sing in registers that he no longer can reach. Just bring them down a full step and I'll bet you he'd sound a heck of a lot better. This has been discussed before and at the time I thought it might cause problems for the band. Others disagreed. Borrowing from CHar's interview, Lightfoot said :

"And as far as playing the music, we love playing the music, the keys are weird but we don’t care!"

So, the question is : Would it be wise to make weird even weirder, since they've been doing it a certain way for so long ? [/QUOTE]These guys are professionals. To lower the key would be like tying shoelaces. [/QUOTE]With today's technology, lowering the key a step or two would be simple. With the guitar, you drop the capo 1 or 2 frets. With modern keyboards, you can change the key just by pushing a few buttons, and still play it using the notes your used to. Barry wouldn't have to worry about a thing with the drums. Rick would have to manually play in a different key, but I think it would be quite easy for him, considering how long he's been playing bass, and the fact that he has a lot of musical know-how.

[JeffreyS821]

Originally posted by jj:
interesting stuff, well, deb, the topic sure has got alot of attention deservedly or not, eh? lol;)

the latter sub-topic of key change is one I'd love to chat amongst this group in person (instead of all this typing, cos I really don't like tying at all, i'm a hunt & pecker, agh)

i've always consider the choice of key which the song is written recorded in, as part of the composition of song itself...i believe that an artist is going to cover a song then they should do it in the written key or just leave it alone - right from the intro onward, if i hear the first few notes in a different key than i grew accustomed to then it just doesn't sound 'right'- that's just my opinion and it's not a practical one - anyhow, does anyone know if Gord has changed keys of songs he's done live vs. studio versions?

i'm not sure what songs are being referred to for key change recommendation? I agree that he needn't bother doing the high notes at the end of SFAWN (like he attempted on MMM live) - last time I heard him do that live he didn't, as I recall

as Char and Ron were saying re: opting for alternative melody notes such as in Beautiful live, I really think this is the answer...as long as it's not a drastic change, I really like when he or any artist delivers new phrasings or melody notes when performing live...actually, I love that, and that's a large part of what I'm there for and to hear live arrangements...odd that I'm flexible on any melody and phrasings but stubborn about key changes, eh? lol

but some artists go totally overboard on changing their live versions of songs, eh...sometimes I just shake my head and say "what was THAT!???"

hey, if keys were to be changed, shouldn't they songs be transposed up and not down a notch in most cases? what songs are you referring to gretschviking1967? i think the ability to hit low or high notes is more about projection/diaphram limitations than his voice changing over which may or may not be related to smoking...i actually thought smoking makes the voice lower...the change is probably natural or related to other bad habits from the past...anyhow, like i said, i think he delivers a song 'better' these days and chooses more interesting songs to sing..there's a bunch of "hits" Gord still performs that I could totally do without hearing live but that they are must plays obviously and good catchy tunes

oh, I agree about the true and truest fan terms, ugh

i could ramble more but i doubt many woudl make it thru my 2 cents already...i gotta say that although i bypass lots of longwinded posts and threads, that I have read this one and loved reading everyone's take from one extreme to another...100% agree with RMD, that Gord HAS thought about IT - and it's obvious that i 100% disagree that his voice is NO more and I'm sorry to hear that there won't be a new album of fresh material delivered in Gord's WFY, APPT, Harmony voice...but i suppose i can get by with rotating the small handful of existing recordings he's got out there and more live stuff and possibly more gems from the vault, pleeeease:) JJ,

I am referring to most of the tunes he performs. "Carferee Highway" is one where he has the choice to bring the capo down a notch. That medley of "For Lovin' Me/Did She Mention My Name" is another one that should played with open chords. He'd be bringing "DSMMN" back to it's original register. He needs to bring the keys DOWN, not UP. Take a look at the live DVD. The low notes are fine but he almost goes cross eyed a few times struggling to hit those higher notes. At one point near the end of "Canadian Railroad Trilogy", he looses it completely. Take a look.


As a musician, I have learned that playing everything in the original key is downright silly and the worst thing a person can do. I have seen people with that attitude make absolute fools of themselves. I was one of them. For years I wouldn't perform certain songs because I refused to change the key and of course, I knew the original was just way too high for me. I turned down many many requests for songs that I knew I could play but simply refused. Then one day I woke up and said to myself, "Wait a minute! Am I out of my mind? This is my bread and butter! WHY should I not do these songs in a way that I can sing them? I am NOT Gordon Lightfoot, the Beatles, Michael Nesmith and vice versa." Once I pushed that narrow mindedness out of the way, a huge doorway opened for me where I was performing off the wall tunes like "Strawberry Fields Forever", "Cotton Jenny", "What Am I Doing Hanging 'Round?" etc. From that point onward, my repertoire exploded. Besides, 99.9% of professional musicians change the key to nearly everything they get their hands on. It also keeps the creative juices flowing.

[ April 13, 2007, 17:46: Message edited by: gretschviking1967 ]

[gretschviking1967]

Originally posted by jj:
interesting stuff, well, deb, the topic sure has got alot of attention deservedly or not, eh? lol;)

the latter sub-topic of key change is one I'd love to chat amongst this group in person (instead of all this typing, cos I really don't like tying at all, i'm a hunt & pecker, agh)

i've always consider the choice of key which the song is written recorded in, as part of the composition of song itself...i believe that an artist is going to cover a song then they should do it in the written key or just leave it alone - right from the intro onward, if i hear the first few notes in a different key than i grew accustomed to then it just doesn't sound 'right'- that's just my opinion and it's not a practical one - anyhow, does anyone know if Gord has changed keys of songs he's done live vs. studio versions?

i'm not sure what songs are being referred to for key change recommendation? I agree that he needn't bother doing the high notes at the end of SFAWN (like he attempted on MMM live) - last time I heard him do that live he didn't, as I recall

as Char and Ron were saying re: opting for alternative melody notes such as in Beautiful live, I really think this is the answer...as long as it's not a drastic change, I really like when he or any artist delivers new phrasings or melody notes when performing live...actually, I love that, and that's a large part of what I'm there for and to hear live arrangements...odd that I'm flexible on any melody and phrasings but stubborn about key changes, eh? lol

but some artists go totally overboard on changing their live versions of songs, eh...sometimes I just shake my head and say "what was THAT!???"

hey, if keys were to be changed, shouldn't they songs be transposed up and not down a notch in most cases? what songs are you referring to gretschviking1967? i think the ability to hit low or high notes is more about projection/diaphram limitations than his voice changing over which may or may not be related to smoking...i actually thought smoking makes the voice lower...the change is probably natural or related to other bad habits from the past...anyhow, like i said, i think he delivers a song 'better' these days and chooses more interesting songs to sing..there's a bunch of "hits" Gord still performs that I could totally do without hearing live but that they are must plays obviously and good catchy tunes

oh, I agree about the true and truest fan terms, ugh

i could ramble more but i doubt many woudl make it thru my 2 cents already...i gotta say that although i bypass lots of longwinded posts and threads, that I have read this one and loved reading everyone's take from one extreme to another...100% agree with RMD, that Gord HAS thought about IT - and it's obvious that i 100% disagree that his voice is NO more and I'm sorry to hear that there won't be a new album of fresh material delivered in Gord's WFY, APPT, Harmony voice...but i suppose i can get by with rotating the small handful of existing recordings he's got out there and more live stuff and possibly more gems from the vault, pleeeease:) JJ,

I am referring to most of the tunes he performs. "Carferee Highway" is one where he has the choice to bring the capo down a notch. That medley of "For Lovin' Me/Did She Mention My Name" is another one that should played with open chords. He'd be bringing "DSMMN" back to it's original register. He needs to bring the keys DOWN, not UP. Take a look at the live DVD. The low notes are fine but he almost goes cross eyed a few times struggling to hit those higher notes. At one point near the end of "Canadian Railroad Trilogy", he looses it completely. Take a look.


As a musician, I have learned that playing everything in the original key is downright silly and the worst thing a person can do. I have seen people with that attitude make absolute fools of themselves. I was one of them. For years I wouldn't perform certain songs because I refused to change the key and of course, I knew the original was just way too high for me. I turned down many many requests for songs that I knew I could play but simply refused. Then one day I woke up and said to myself, "Wait a minute! Am I out of my mind? This is my bread and butter! WHY should I not do these songs in a way that I can sing them? I am NOT Gordon Lightfoot, the Beatles, Michael Nesmith and vice versa." Once I pushed that narrow mindedness out of the way, a huge doorway opened for me where I was performing off the wall tunes like "Strawberry Fields Forever", "Cotton Jenny", "What Am I Doing Hanging 'Round?" etc. From that point onward, my repertoire exploded. Besides, 99.9% of professional musicians change the key to nearly everything they get their hands on. It also keeps the creative juices flowing.

[ April 13, 2007, 17:46: Message edited by: gretschviking1967 ]

[JeffreyS821]

Originally posted by Cathy:
quote:Originally posted by gretschviking1967:
quote:Originally posted by RMD:
quote:Originally posted by gretschviking1967:
All he needs to do is lower the key to the songs and stop trying to sing in registers that he no longer can reach. Just bring them down a full step and I'll bet you he'd sound a heck of a lot better. This has been discussed before and at the time I thought it might cause problems for the band. Others disagreed. Borrowing from CHar's interview, Lightfoot said :

"And as far as playing the music, we love playing the music, the keys are weird but we don’t care!"

So, the question is : Would it be wise to make weird even weirder, since they've been doing it a certain way for so long ? [/QUOTE]These guys are professionals. To lower the key would be like tying shoelaces. [/QUOTE]With today's technology, lowering the key a step or two would be simple. With the guitar, you drop the capo 1 or 2 frets. With modern keyboards, you can change the key just by pushing a few buttons, and still play it using the notes your used to. Barry wouldn't have to worry about a thing with the drums. Rick would have to manually play in a different key, but I think it would be quite easy for him, considering how long he's been playing bass, and the fact that he has a lot of musical know-how. [/QUOTE]Cathy,


Exactly!!! I have done the same in the recording studio. I am not the greatest keyboard player (guitar is my instrument). I would push a few buttons and all of a sudden I was performing a song in the key of B Flat but playing the piano in "G". Very cool indeed. Hey, whatever works!

[gretschviking1967]

Originally posted by Cathy:
quote:Originally posted by gretschviking1967:
quote:Originally posted by RMD:
quote:Originally posted by gretschviking1967:
All he needs to do is lower the key to the songs and stop trying to sing in registers that he no longer can reach. Just bring them down a full step and I'll bet you he'd sound a heck of a lot better. This has been discussed before and at the time I thought it might cause problems for the band. Others disagreed. Borrowing from CHar's interview, Lightfoot said :

"And as far as playing the music, we love playing the music, the keys are weird but we don’t care!"

So, the question is : Would it be wise to make weird even weirder, since they've been doing it a certain way for so long ? [/QUOTE]These guys are professionals. To lower the key would be like tying shoelaces. [/QUOTE]With today's technology, lowering the key a step or two would be simple. With the guitar, you drop the capo 1 or 2 frets. With modern keyboards, you can change the key just by pushing a few buttons, and still play it using the notes your used to. Barry wouldn't have to worry about a thing with the drums. Rick would have to manually play in a different key, but I think it would be quite easy for him, considering how long he's been playing bass, and the fact that he has a lot of musical know-how. [/QUOTE]Cathy,


Exactly!!! I have done the same in the recording studio. I am not the greatest keyboard player (guitar is my instrument). I would push a few buttons and all of a sudden I was performing a song in the key of B Flat but playing the piano in "G". Very cool indeed. Hey, whatever works!

[Station Master]

Originally posted by gretschviking1967:
[QUOTE] Once I pushed that narrow mindedness out of the way... well, i've always been a bit of a stubborn, pinhead ;)

http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/jmo1413l.jpg

lol, i hear your replies, guys...i'll check out those tunes on the DVD, it's been years, not my fave piece of GL listening really...while me and several colleagues are in that 0.01%, i totally agree, if the clock is ticking in the studio, use whatever technology is at your disposal to get the job done...years ago i got rid of all my electronic stuff, my kid's gonna get the same grueling non-capo, non-transpose button upbringing that i had, lol....poor dude...one thing we do agree on: yeah, the band probably IS lazy! :) (j/k)

[jj]

Originally posted by gretschviking1967:
[QUOTE] Once I pushed that narrow mindedness out of the way... well, i've always been a bit of a stubborn, pinhead ;)

http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/jmo1413l.jpg

lol, i hear your replies, guys...i'll check out those tunes on the DVD, it's been years, not my fave piece of GL listening really...while me and several colleagues are in that 0.01%, i totally agree, if the clock is ticking in the studio, use whatever technology is at your disposal to get the job done...years ago i got rid of all my electronic stuff, my kid's gonna get the same grueling non-capo, non-transpose button upbringing that i had, lol....poor dude...one thing we do agree on: yeah, the band probably IS lazy! :) (j/k)

[Station Master]

ps) for a thread with such a dim Headline, this sure contains some wonderfully touching posts from members, i just read Kerstin, DSR, RJ, BH, CW and all others, nice stuff:)

[jj]

ps) for a thread with such a dim Headline, this sure contains some wonderfully touching posts from members, i just read Kerstin, DSR, RJ, BH, CW and all others, nice stuff:)

[fkafl]

Lightfoot's voice has certainly changed over the thirty plus years I've been listening. Listening to "River of Light" is a prime example. My girlfriend says that he still sounds good.....Someone on this thread said that Harmony is a beter record that APPT - probably true. Albums like Waiting For You and Harmony sound like they have pared-down production, and I think that tends to help rather than hinder Lightfoot's voice - it's the real Gord, not an embellished, over-produced sound.

[bjm7777]

Lightfoot's voice has certainly changed over the thirty plus years I've been listening. Listening to "River of Light" is a prime example. My girlfriend says that he still sounds good.....Someone on this thread said that Harmony is a beter record that APPT - probably true. Albums like Waiting For You and Harmony sound like they have pared-down production, and I think that tends to help rather than hinder Lightfoot's voice - it's the real Gord, not an embellished, over-produced sound.

[Gitchigumee]

I listen to Harmony at least once a week, it's one of my very favorites. I jump back and forth between listening to young Gord, in-his-prime Gord, and now Gord. And I love all of them--the entire package.

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but If you don't like the way he sounds now, then just play his old CD's and don't attend a concert if you think you'll be disappointed. Your loss.

[Peggy]

Yesterday is gone, yesterday's allright
Yesterday belongs, in my dreams at night
Yesterday is swell, yesterday is great
Yesterday is strong, remembering can wait
Once upon a time, once upon a day when
I was in my prime, once along the way I think Mr Lightfoot is aware of his "limitations" and it's ironic that you use this song to illustrate the "horrors" of his "new" voice.

[fkafl]

Yesterday is gone, yesterday's allright
Yesterday belongs, in my dreams at night
Yesterday is swell, yesterday is great
Yesterday is strong, remembering can wait
Once upon a time, once upon a day when
I was in my prime, once along the way I think Mr Lightfoot is aware of his "limitations" and it's ironic that you use this song to illustrate the "horrors" of his "new" voice.

[TheWatchman]

A thread like this should not be allowed to exist this long. What does it say to new fans? What if Lightfoot or one of his kids see it? How would this make them feel?

Discussing his voice changes is one thing, but the title of this thread and some of crap in it should be zapped.

[Gitchigumee]

I agree with Watchman and I'm boycotting it. Bye, and see you in a different thread. :)

[ April 18, 2007, 12:52: Message edited by: Gitchigumee ]

[charlene]

While the subject title is not to my liking this has been a topic of discussion several times and many have viewed their thoughts in the last couple of weeks without rancour or personal slagging.

Perhaps it seems off-putting to discuss it but it doesn't change the fact that his voice has changed. He's aware of it and makes changes accordingly.

Folks who have not followed his career since the 70's will be surprised, no doubt about it, but many who have come here after just finding Lightfoot seem to feel it's worth it to participate in these sorts of discussions.

Nothing is said maliciously, perhaps a bit of sensitivity was lacking at times in some posts but the topic is relevant.

And once again I do appreciate that there has been no personal insults between posters.

If you've posted your thoughts earlier in a thread and then choose to depart that's your privilege.

As was said earlier in this thread - "If you don't like the way he sounds now, then just play his old CD's and don't attend a concert if you think you'll be disappointed. Your loss."

The same thing applies if you choose not to post or read a certain thread that is not to your liking.

It was said there were some very touching posts earlier so I hope we have more of the same - perhaps along the line sof how some songs have changed for you with the voice change as I said how Beautiful seemed different to me...

perhaps the meaning has changed for you in a song? ..
I have a few others that I know make me hear and interpret things in a different way now that his voice has changed since the original recording.

Anyone else?

[charlene]

While the subject title is not to my liking this has been a topic of discussion several times and many have viewed their thoughts in the last couple of weeks without rancour or personal slagging.

Perhaps it seems off-putting to discuss it but it doesn't change the fact that his voice has changed. He's aware of it and makes changes accordingly.

Folks who have not followed his career since the 70's will be surprised, no doubt about it, but many who have come here after just finding Lightfoot seem to feel it's worth it to participate in these sorts of discussions.

Nothing is said maliciously, perhaps a bit of sensitivity was lacking at times in some posts but the topic is relevant.

And once again I do appreciate that there has been no personal insults between posters.

If you've posted your thoughts earlier in a thread and then choose to depart that's your privilege.

As was said earlier in this thread - "If you don't like the way he sounds now, then just play his old CD's and don't attend a concert if you think you'll be disappointed. Your loss."

The same thing applies if you choose not to post or read a certain thread that is not to your liking.

It was said there were some very touching posts earlier so I hope we have more of the same - perhaps along the line sof how some songs have changed for you with the voice change as I said how Beautiful seemed different to me...

perhaps the meaning has changed for you in a song? ..
I have a few others that I know make me hear and interpret things in a different way now that his voice has changed since the original recording.

Anyone else?

[Daylight Matty]

In my opinion, there are 3 Gord voices. The early days, the Sundown era, and the latter years. I love them all equally. Each voice is beautiful and I can't choose between them. It doesn't matter if I'm listening to 'the No Hotel' or 'Long River', I love it all!! I hope he comes with a new disc soon.