Cussing in GL songs

[WanderLust]

First off I think Lightfoot is one of the best song writers ever. I have fond memories of his music when I was a kid in the middle seventies. I do wonder why he chose to swear in two of my favorite songs. The Watchman's Gone and Seven Island Suite. It seems strange to hear this on the Sundown album after listening to Don Quixote. The cussing does not disturb me, but I think these two songs are the only ones. I think he must have been ornery about the social/economic issues in 1973.
Who would'nt have been! Any thoughts?

[gurko]

First off I think Lightfoot is one of the best song writers ever. I have fond memories of his music when I was a kid in the middle seventies. I do wonder why he chose to swear in two of my favorite songs. The Watchman's Gone and Seven Island Suite. It seems strange to hear this on the Sundown album after listening to Don Quixote. The cussing does not disturb me, but I think these two songs are the only ones. I think he must have been ornery about the social/economic issues in 1973.
Who would'nt have been! Any thoughts?

[Andy T.]

Also on the Sundown album he does say "I'll be damned" in Carefree Highway. The swearing didn't bother me either, and I didn't notice all of it anyway - due to the lack of lyric sheet, it was years before I caught what he was saying in Seven Island Suite. I have no idea what his motivations to write those lyrics though.

andy

[joveski]

you call that swearing?

compared to what some rap artists use today, thats nothing. its become everyday language

[WanderLust]

It was a departure from his usual style. Yeah morals have sure gone down the tube the last 30 years. Pretty hard to compare today's music to anything recorded back then. Could you even imagine an 'F' bomb on anything Lightfoot ever did? It would be completely embarassing and taint the great talent he is. He is a poet, musician and singer. Most of today's rap entertainers can't sing a lick or play an instrument. The video comes before the song. Such an image thing and lack of character.
Lightfoot's music stands on it's own. His songs put almost anything to shame today.

[gurko]

It was a departure from his usual style. Yeah morals have sure gone down the tube the last 30 years. Pretty hard to compare today's music to anything recorded back then. Could you even imagine an 'F' bomb on anything Lightfoot ever did? It would be completely embarassing and taint the great talent he is. He is a poet, musician and singer. Most of today's rap entertainers can't sing a lick or play an instrument. The video comes before the song. Such an image thing and lack of character.
Lightfoot's music stands on it's own. His songs put almost anything to shame today.

[fowlesjohn]

Originally posted by gurko:
Lightfoot's music stands on it's own. His songs put almost anything to shame today. Welcome to the forum Gurko. I have to say that your summary of Gord and his music is spot on
but that you are really preaching to the converted here!!
You have reminded me of something from one of his 60's shows that I saw in Montreal
If I remember correctly he started a few bars of Oh Danny Boy stopped abruptly and said something like "No I have to sing all this original shit."
But in talking to him very often in the last six years or so he has never that I remember once used any cussin' words in a conversation
John Fowles
I’m gonna let it ride Here’s to the girls of London And the ones from Montreal
We never will forget them We still fantasize them all
from:-
http://www.lyricsfreak.com/g/gordon-lightfoot/61571.html]www.lyricsfreak.com/g/gordon-lightfoot/61571.html
http://www.anqc.org/montreal/montreal.JPG
from:-

[ June 25, 2005, 21:09: Message edited by: fowlesjohn ]

[Auburn Annie]

Well, I expect he knows all the words and phrases that turn up in any top 40 "song" these days, and then some. But he was undoubtedly raised a gentleman and comes from an era when such words were generally not used in polite society. I have no doubt there have been times when he's let loose with a few - or several - choice words but apparently it's not habitual.

I myself am a heck and darn type; several years ago at a class reunion the word "damn" casually slipped from my lips and jaws fell all around me. They'd be calling the EMTs if I dropped the F bomb, LOL.

As for the use in songs, he's so particular about the words he uses, I'm sure it's deliberate and in support of either the mood of the song or the scan of a line.

[kenny]

"Where maps are contained and what's left of his brains when his crew thru his BALLS to the sharks"

That's very graphic from 1976!!

[Rich Man Spiritual]

"Where maps are contained and what's left of his brains when his crew thru his BALLS to the sharks"

That's very graphic from 1976!!

[Sheryl]

Originally posted by Rich Man Spiritual:
"Where maps are contained and what's left of his brains when his crew thru his BALLS to the sharks"

That's very graphic from 1976!! It's "threw his BONES to the sharks!"
(edited)
holy toledo! All this time I thought it was bones!! I stand corrected! (just checked the lyrics)

[ June 25, 2005, 19:56: Message edited by: Sheryl ]

[closetcanadian]

Sheryl,

Check the liner notes from the Summertime Dream CD or a lyric sheet for Too Many Clues in This Room. RMS has the correct lyric.

[bjb]

I wonder if it's a reference to a real occurrence in history? Our favorite story teller seems to be up on lots of literature :)

[kenny]

Originally posted by closetcanadian:
Sheryl,

Check the liner notes from the Summertime Dream CD or a lyric sheet for Too Many Clues in This Room. RMS has the correct lyric. Gord, the old salty sea dog wrote "BALLS".
It is in the CD liner notes!

[Rich Man Spiritual]

Originally posted by closetcanadian:
Sheryl,

Check the liner notes from the Summertime Dream CD or a lyric sheet for Too Many Clues in This Room. RMS has the correct lyric. Gord, the old salty sea dog wrote "BALLS".
It is in the CD liner notes!

[Sheryl]

Yes, I'd edited my own post to show that I did check the lyrics afterward and said that I stood corrected.

[RaisinSpores]

Hello. This is my first post as a member. I've posted as a guest, and I've read the message boards many, many times before.

Cussing. Cussing is an art. There is nothing wrong with cussing in songs, and there is nothing wrong with cussing in everyday life, in my opinion. The problem is when songwriters overuse cuss words; you shouldn't use ANY word (other than maybe "the" or "and") 15 times in one song, so why would you use the f-word that many times? The writer should be certain that the word they choose, whether it's a swear or not, is the one that best expresses what they want to. Since GL doesn't swear much in his songs, it gives him a lot of credibility when he does swear, like on the Sundown album.

My favorite cussing singer/songwriter is Jimmy Buffett; it fits well with his seafaring, Gulf Coast attitude: "Good times and riches and son-of-a-bitches, I've seen more than I can recall."

[Winter's Claw]

Hello. This is my first post as a member. I've posted as a guest, and I've read the message boards many, many times before.

Cussing. Cussing is an art. There is nothing wrong with cussing in songs, and there is nothing wrong with cussing in everyday life, in my opinion. The problem is when songwriters overuse cuss words; you shouldn't use ANY word (other than maybe "the" or "and") 15 times in one song, so why would you use the f-word that many times? The writer should be certain that the word they choose, whether it's a swear or not, is the one that best expresses what they want to. Since GL doesn't swear much in his songs, it gives him a lot of credibility when he does swear, like on the Sundown album.

My favorite cussing singer/songwriter is Jimmy Buffett; it fits well with his seafaring, Gulf Coast attitude: "Good times and riches and son-of-a-bitches, I've seen more than I can recall."

[Sheryl]

Welcome, Winter's Claw, to the friendliest board and nicest sons-of-*(@^&$@ on the planet! :D

[Borderstone]

First up...Welcome Winter's Claw! :) Alsways great to see new folks here. Cool name too,in fact it's the coolest since my own!!! :cool: :eek: Just kiddin'!


I know I brought up this topic about 2 years ago and at the time I was as surprised about Gord's cursing but now,in comparing it with the "standard" cursing of a lot of modern artists,it really isn't much to get surprised over.

Better one or two words from Gordon than 1,000,006 from the rest! ;) Been me. Later!

[kenny]

Originally posted by Sheryl:
Yes, I'd edited my own post to show that I did check the lyrics afterward and said that I stood corrected. Hello Sheryl,

I was answering Borderstone sorry for the mix up!
Gotta say that it could sound like bones if you weren't 100% sure!

[Rich Man Spiritual]

Originally posted by Sheryl:
Yes, I'd edited my own post to show that I did check the lyrics afterward and said that I stood corrected. Hello Sheryl,

I was answering Borderstone sorry for the mix up!
Gotta say that it could sound like bones if you weren't 100% sure!

[SeattleRain]

My favorite cussing singer/songwriter is Jimmy Buffett; it fits well with his seafaring, Gulf Coast attitude: "Good times and riches and son-of-a-bitches, I've seen more than I can recall.""I made enough money to buy Miami, but I p****d it away so fast"

Another great Buffett line.

[Jim Nasium]

My favorite cussing singer/songwriter is Jimmy Buffett; it fits well with his seafaring, Gulf Coast attitude: "Good times and riches and son-of-a-bitches, I've seen more than I can recall.""I made enough money to buy Miami, but I p****d it away so fast"

Another great Buffett line.

[Sydney Steve]

I reckon Gord's best songs "keep a handle on the real". Swearing in his work reflects reality (and the fallibility) of the broad spectrum of the people in the places and situations "the Painter" has passed through and by.
PS . I feel sorry for the sharks. I bet they wish they did get the bones Sheryl - far more filling ! They must have still been very hungry after that tiny little entree mentioned in "Too Many Clues"....

[RaisinSpores]

Jim Nasium,
That is a great Buffett line. I don't know if you've ever noticed it, but backup singers actually HARMONIZE on the line "p***** it away so fast". What a line to harmonize on. It's pretty funny!

[Winter's Claw]

Jim Nasium,
That is a great Buffett line. I don't know if you've ever noticed it, but backup singers actually HARMONIZE on the line "p***** it away so fast". What a line to harmonize on. It's pretty funny!

[Sheryl]

Originally posted by SYDNEY STEVE:
... PS . I feel sorry for the sharks. I bet they wish they did get the bones Sheryl - far more filling ! They must have still been very hungry after that tiny little entree mentioned in "Too Many Clues".... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! Good one, Steve!!

[steve gittins]

I was listening to Sundown the other day, and noticed how Gord uses the S word twice in the Sundown CD. ( Watchman's Gone & Seven Island Suite)This seems to be the only CD where he cusses. Anyone find any others? Not a big deal..I'm no prude..just a discussion topic.

[BendRick]

I was listening to Sundown the other day, and noticed how Gord uses the S word twice in the Sundown CD. ( Watchman's Gone & Seven Island Suite)This seems to be the only CD where he cusses. Anyone find any others? Not a big deal..I'm no prude..just a discussion topic.

[johnfowles]

Originally posted by RenoRick:
just a discussion topic. Yes Well All ruddy Right Rick this was quite recently covered at:-
http://www.corfid.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=003265#000001
in a topic worth rereading that is almost coincidentally entitled:-
"Cussing in songs"
John Fowles
from corfid poster and Arizonian waltsongs at:-
http://www.musesmuse.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=20336
"I agree that in most cases profanity detracts from a lyric. I have heard a few lines that I thought were okay with it though. This line from Gordon Lightfoot's Seven Island Suite always strikes a chord with me."

"Fortune will not find you in your mansion or your truck"
Brothers will desert you when your're down and sh*t-out-a-luck"

[Glenmark]

Not cussing exactly, but I always thought the line about "the crew threw his balls to the sharks" in "Too Many Clues in This Room" was pretty startling.

[Iron]

Startling indeed there Glenmark!!I think it may have been his "Bones" they tossed over..
Not that it might make much difference to the curseaphobics.I'm sure there might be some way to interperate bone as an offensive bad word.

[Cathy]

Here's the verse Glenmark is talking about:

At best it is said we've been locked deep inside
Of an old sea man's chest full of charts
Where maps are contained and what's left of his brains
When his crew threw his balls to the sharks

It definitely was a bit more than his bones that got tossed overboard.

[Iron]

I stand corrected,and Humbly so.Missheard lyrycs indeed..I've never worked on this one ,been hearing and singing bones all this time.Now I'm gonna have to go check out Cherokee Bend.Was the "kid a pig" or was he not big???

Sorry Glenmark

[Robby Lake]

"dirty little Kid by his side.
Daddy didn't like what the white man did nor the
deal or the way that he lied.."
I believe that's the lyric.Honestly,I haven't heard it in years.

[Borderstone]

"Daddy didn't like what the white man said 'bout the dirty little kid at his side."

(&)"Daddy didn't like what the white man did nor the deal or the way that he lied."

(Got it from the lyrics on the site.) ;)

[Iron]

Nahh,not that one,it's the line that goes "Now the boy was a pig but he hunted when he could". I figured that is why the food ran low.
I know the boy "was'nt big",but he could have been a pig,well it works either way,I'd say.
As for the balls,I'm gonna stick with my bones version.Gordon changes things around a bit once in a while,I don't think He would mind if prefer to stick to the bones...

[Robby Lake]

"Now the boy wasn't BIG but he hunted pretty good so they lived for a time that way..."
I think that's it-it makes sense.
It's like a Gordon Lightfoot Rap song.
The lyrics are so quick.Awesome story telling.
And that's how it happend in those days.
White man pee on indian.
Capo:2nd fret(F#m)in Em.
That's Red Shea on electric lead and Terry Clements on Acoustic lead.Gord plays the Em,but in the beginning and before every verse he plays the E5(no 3rd)chord.That's his signature chord!(sundown,waiting for you,cold on the sholder,whisper my name,sea of tranquility,and probably 20 or 30 more)
I play music out for a living and I could never get Cheeroke Bend right when it comes to delivering the lyrics.Not even close.

[Iron]

Robby,
He hunted when he could..I'm familiar with the song,I was just jokin a bit there,as usual.
I'm,fairly certain,about the lyrycs on this one,as this has been one that I've been working on,off and on,for a while.Started off with the 12,but somehow I started a T-picken version on the 6.Still workin on it and will be for a while,but it's coming along.I am also familiar with the chord's you mentioned and you also hit on several of my favorites, but I sure did'nt know about the E-5 part you mentioned in C.B.
My books just show the Em,but I'll sure have to give it a try.This is one I've never saw Gord do in concert,and I imagine He just figures it's not worth the Hassle(ing),but it has been on my favorites list for a long time.Talk about painting a picture,this one leaves an entire movie floating through my mind.

[Wesley]

Originally posted by Glenmark:
Not cussing exactly, but I always thought the line about "the crew threw his balls to the sharks" in "Too Many Clues in This Room" was pretty startling. huuum. haven't heard the song since I was smal and my turn table is defunct. I assume none of these songs were released as singles. And even if they were they might be a Greenback Dollar case. you know that song by The Kingston Trio. altough a few of my internet stations plays the song as it was 1 version I've heard just has a guitar strum in place of the D word.

[Affair on Touhy Ave.]

Originally posted by Glenmark:
Not cussing exactly, but I always thought the line about "the crew threw his balls to the sharks" in "Too Many Clues in This Room" was pretty startling. huuum. haven't heard the song since I was smal and my turn table is defunct. I assume none of these songs were released as singles. And even if they were they might be a Greenback Dollar case. you know that song by The Kingston Trio. altough a few of my internet stations plays the song as it was 1 version I've heard just has a guitar strum in place of the D word.

[Lindab]

Sorry folks,must confess.The last time I played
"Greenbair Dollar" I cursed in the chorus.\
I'll have to admit,I've got a bit of Socialism
blood in me!My real last name is "Aptheker" and my great-uncle was Herbert Aptheker,a pioneer free-thinker in this country.For more info.,type his name up and you'll find some juice!He's written plenty of books.
I myself am just a folk singer with a G.E.D.!See you all later...

[Robby Lake]

Sorry folks,must confess.The last time I played
"Greenbair Dollar" I cursed in the chorus.\
I'll have to admit,I've got a bit of Socialism
blood in me!My real last name is "Aptheker" and my great-uncle was Herbert Aptheker,a pioneer free-thinker in this country.For more info.,type his name up and you'll find some juice!He's written plenty of books.
I myself am just a folk singer with a G.E.D.!See you all later...

[Robby Lake]

Brian,
The books are never totally correct unless it's Tab.
Yeh,the E5no3rd,a big chord for Gord.That's how he gets that fat sound on both the 6 and 12 string.

[Iron]

Robby,
I know what you mean about the "books".I don't know why they did'nt do them all the way Gordon does them!Sometimes you find them in a different key,relative to the capo.I've even found some that do not use the capo.I found some of these variations to be quite confusing in the early learning days.I do not "read" music,don't have a clue in that realm,just learn from the chord and tab books and from the ear.
The obese E.The chord of many faces.E5no3rd,E,E5,Eno3rd,E drone.Just depends on what book and what song yer lookin at,but it's pretty much the same chord.I think it should just be named "L#t"
I think I have most of the Gordon music books,but one of my favorites is the Old Dan's,original lead & notes.The one in His own handwriting.Wish they were all like that!!

[Robby Lake]

Brian,you've got to share a little!How's bout sharing one or two songs from the book you speak of?In his own hand writting,you don't say!
Old Dan's Records-the song-prime example of working around the E5no3rd chord(capo:2ndfret)
Dave Matthews does something like that on "Crash".
How about "Farewell To Anabell"?
One of my Favs:"Another Lazy Mornin'"
Capo:2nd fret,D,D6,D7----G,Gm--D,E(D 4thfret)
And that part ..I know it but not sure of the chord names:
A Bb+7? D+7? A7
Coffee In the kitchen woman on the run


Just some inversions of the A chord,I presume.
What ever it is,he uses almost the exact same
progression for the song "Ghosts Of Cape Horn"

See them all in sad repair,Demons dance everywhere....

[Robby Lake]

Just finished learning"Forgive Me Lord"
just in time for Jesus' Birthday!

[joveski]

speaking of Forgive me lord, when he played it live in the 80s, he'd changed the lyric "i've even been stoned"... instead of chased..

[Iron]

Robby,
I'd be more than happy to share anything I have in the Gord music realm.
Except for "Ghosts",the other songs you mentioned are all in the GOOD version of ODR.Send me your address{on the personnel message system,if you prefer},and I will make You a copy of the book and send it to you.I'm sure there is some way to do it on the computer,but I'm about as adept on a computer as I am at reading sheet music.
You mentioned a couple more of my favorites.
Dave M. ,I really like his solo work,don't care much for the whole band scene though.
And "Ghosts",that is most often the one I warm up my fingers with when I first pick up the 6-string.I love the progression too,but I'm not familiar with the version You mentioned.I do Dm,C,F,G,Dm,C,Dm.
FtA and ODR are actually very similar.I could give you the chord names that are in the book,but I don't know how to show the chord diagrams in a simple way.
Another one of my favs. in this book is "My Pony Won't Go".Drives my wife nuts.{not one of her favs.}I don't know why,and I seldom ever hear others mention this song,but from the first time I ever heard it,I was hooked.To each His or Her own,I reckon..

[Robby Lake]

Last night at my Fri. nite gig,I tried "Forgive Me Lord" and felt a shiver go down my neck.
just another tremendous Lightfoot song that didn't make it on an album.The verse chords on "Ghosts" are simple but fast in progression.
I was talkin bout the Bridge.
I love Dream Street Rose.It may be the best album ever,the last full album with petal steel guitar.
Honestly,I know I'm gonna get yelled at,but I wish that I had been old enough to see the
Lightfoot Three:Gord,Red Shea&John Stockfish
in concert in,say,1968.He was strong and vibrant back then.When I saw him in 2001 and 2002 in Clearwater,Fla. it was very 1 dimentional.
With all due respect,I'm as Big a fan as anyone on the planet but long gone are the days of"Oh,Linda".

[Robby Lake]

Brian,
Almost forgot--here's my address.
I've got Gord's Anthology Book so maybe I can help you out too.
Again,thanx.
matinee91@yahoo.com