gord the best singer/songwriter ever?

[gordfan]

Is there anyone else who agrees that Gord is probably one of the best and most original singers around?

[gordfan]

Is there anyone else who agrees that Gord is probably one of the best and most original singers around?

[myweim]

Gee, let me give that a neo second to think
ok I thought about it.
Amen to that brother

[lightbunny]

Gee, let me give that a neo second to think
ok I thought about it.
Amen to that brother

[james hill]

Ditto!

[BILLW]

I thought about it and you may be right. http://www.corfid.com/ubb/smile.gif

Bill

[mtheeb]

Lightfoot may be one of the finest singer/songwriters, but it's hard to top Lennon/McCartney in their prime. They are what I would describe as "the best."

[Restless]

Lightfoot may be one of the finest singer/songwriters, but it's hard to top Lennon/McCartney in their prime. They are what I would describe as "the best."

[myweim]

I would still have to say Gordon. Are you taking about there early 60's work when they where the mob top or there later six's work.
The beatles are a differnt type of music then Gordon's. Both good in there own way but hads down for Gordon
lightbunny

[lightbunny]

I would still have to say Gordon. Are you taking about there early 60's work when they where the mob top or there later six's work.
The beatles are a differnt type of music then Gordon's. Both good in there own way but hads down for Gordon
lightbunny

[mtheeb]

Lightbunny,
Lennon/McCartney earn my vote all the way from Please Please Me to Long and Winding Road. (Their solo work is more sporadic, in quality, and I have to ignore the drugs and Lennon's politics...but musically they're hard to outshine.) By the way, what is a "light bunny"?

[Restless]

Lightbunny,
Lennon/McCartney earn my vote all the way from Please Please Me to Long and Winding Road. (Their solo work is more sporadic, in quality, and I have to ignore the drugs and Lennon's politics...but musically they're hard to outshine.) By the way, what is a "light bunny"?

[joveski]

are we talking singer or songwriter?. if it's songwriter, it has to be Bob Dylan. If it's singer, forget dylan for a moment http://www.corfid.com/ubb/smile.gif

[Stew]

Personally, GL is my favorite singer/songwriter. His music has always touched me; it seems effortless, as if these songs have always existed, and he is simply uncovering them. Michaelangelo said his statues were in the block of stone, he just had to chip away the outside. Am I off base in believing that GL is the same sort of "natural" artist? Objectively, I would say the Dylan is the greatest singer/songwriter, but we all have preferences. Mine happens to be Gordon Lightfoot.

[dscam31]

HE INDEED IS ONE OF THE BEST, IM NOT SURE IM ONLY GUESSING BUT IF JAMES TAYLOR, NEAL DIANMOND, CARLY SIMON, JIM CROCE WERE SINGER/SONGWRITERS THEN THEY ARE SOME OF MY OTHER FAVORITES.

[RBENGALS]

HE INDEED IS ONE OF THE BEST, IM NOT SURE IM ONLY GUESSING BUT IF JAMES TAYLOR, NEAL DIANMOND, CARLY SIMON, JIM CROCE WERE SINGER/SONGWRITERS THEN THEY ARE SOME OF MY OTHER FAVORITES.

[SilverHeels]

IMO Gordon Lightfoot is MOST certainly one
of the best - and very near the top of the
list. Again IMO he completely outwrites and out sings The Beatles and several of the
others mentioned so far. But it is all about
preferences.

[Shane]

Well he is my favorite too! That is not to take anything away from Bob Dylan, Lennon/McCartney, Michael Nesmith, John Prine, Kris Kristofferson, Norman Blake et al. But to answer the question: Yeah, Gord is the best!

[Scott Mac]

Well he is my favorite too! That is not to take anything away from Bob Dylan, Lennon/McCartney, Michael Nesmith, John Prine, Kris Kristofferson, Norman Blake et al. But to answer the question: Yeah, Gord is the best!

[Bill Allen]

Hmmm...in terms of songwriting, this is always sort of a tough one. As some people have alluded to, there is a subtle difference between who is one's favorite, and who is "the best." Yes, Gordon Lightfoot is my personal favorite: his songs are the ones that speak the clearest to my heart, soul and mind. But if I take a step back and try to be dispassionate about it, then the field becomes a bit wider. I probably would rank Lennon/McCartney's work with the Beatles (as individual and collective composers) at the top of the list of popular songwriters. It's easy to say something like "I Want to Hold Your Hand" is just a cute, early 60s pop song, but you have to keep in mind just how revolutionary that song was in terms of its melodic and harmonic components. They basically broke new ground with every album, but it's their sheer progression that always amazes me. To go from something like "Please Please Me" to "Strawberry Fields" in four years is remarkable. Dylan would have to rank right up there too, although he's not a personal favorite of mine. His songs may not speak to me, but I recognize his importance. If I take that dispassionate step back and look at GL, I rank him up there with the great songwriters, but not at the top. I don't consider him a groundbreaker or anything like that. However, in the context of what he does, he is a supremely skilled craftsman--I love the way he constructs his songs, and the chord movements...there is an inescapable logic to everything he does. And as an artist, as a lyricist, he is top-notch. My GL "epiphany" song was Don Quixote--when I first heard it back in '72, I thought I had never heard anyone marry such a simple and yet exquisite melody with such meaningful, deep and beautiful lyrics. He shot to number one in my personal pantheon of singer/songwriters.

And lo and behond, he's still there! http://www.corfid.com/ubb/smile.gif
Derek

[telekidd]

Hmmm...in terms of songwriting, this is always sort of a tough one. As some people have alluded to, there is a subtle difference between who is one's favorite, and who is "the best." Yes, Gordon Lightfoot is my personal favorite: his songs are the ones that speak the clearest to my heart, soul and mind. But if I take a step back and try to be dispassionate about it, then the field becomes a bit wider. I probably would rank Lennon/McCartney's work with the Beatles (as individual and collective composers) at the top of the list of popular songwriters. It's easy to say something like "I Want to Hold Your Hand" is just a cute, early 60s pop song, but you have to keep in mind just how revolutionary that song was in terms of its melodic and harmonic components. They basically broke new ground with every album, but it's their sheer progression that always amazes me. To go from something like "Please Please Me" to "Strawberry Fields" in four years is remarkable. Dylan would have to rank right up there too, although he's not a personal favorite of mine. His songs may not speak to me, but I recognize his importance. If I take that dispassionate step back and look at GL, I rank him up there with the great songwriters, but not at the top. I don't consider him a groundbreaker or anything like that. However, in the context of what he does, he is a supremely skilled craftsman--I love the way he constructs his songs, and the chord movements...there is an inescapable logic to everything he does. And as an artist, as a lyricist, he is top-notch. My GL "epiphany" song was Don Quixote--when I first heard it back in '72, I thought I had never heard anyone marry such a simple and yet exquisite melody with such meaningful, deep and beautiful lyrics. He shot to number one in my personal pantheon of singer/songwriters.

And lo and behond, he's still there! http://www.corfid.com/ubb/smile.gif
Derek

[Wingdrops]

For singer, there are quite a few who top Gord, as I'm sure he'd admit. Elvis and Sinatra, to name but two. Not that the young Gord didn't have a beautiful voice.

For songwriter (NOT including Bach, Beethoven and their ilk), he's behind very few in this century. I personally like him better than Dylan as a songwriter, although he was not as influential. You'd have to consider that the top tier of popular songwriters of this century would include Dylan, Irving Berlin, Woody Guthrie, Rodgers & Hammerstein, Lennon/McCartney and Paul Simon as top songwriters. I'd put them all ahead of Gord. I think Duke Ellington, Andrew Lloyn Webber, and Bruce Springsteen belong in Gord's class too (you HAVE to hear Springsteen's new album, an incredibly mature and moving response to Sept 11).

As for singer/songwriters, I'd take Lennon/McCartney as tops, a clear level above the others. A nudge behind them, I'd put Gord. I'd also include Paul simon, Joni Mitchell, Billy Joel and Elton John in his tier.

So I don't think Gord is the "best ever." HOWEVER, he is the only one currently writing in his genre, the songs of the sea, of the land and of the wanderer. The songs of break-up, of sorrow and of surprising joy and beauty. Those of us who LOVE that genre, find Gord to be incomparable.

Count me as one of those.


------------------
"And the laughter came too easy for life to pass me by."

[2Much2Lose]

For singer, there are quite a few who top Gord, as I'm sure he'd admit. Elvis and Sinatra, to name but two. Not that the young Gord didn't have a beautiful voice.

For songwriter (NOT including Bach, Beethoven and their ilk), he's behind very few in this century. I personally like him better than Dylan as a songwriter, although he was not as influential. You'd have to consider that the top tier of popular songwriters of this century would include Dylan, Irving Berlin, Woody Guthrie, Rodgers & Hammerstein, Lennon/McCartney and Paul Simon as top songwriters. I'd put them all ahead of Gord. I think Duke Ellington, Andrew Lloyn Webber, and Bruce Springsteen belong in Gord's class too (you HAVE to hear Springsteen's new album, an incredibly mature and moving response to Sept 11).

As for singer/songwriters, I'd take Lennon/McCartney as tops, a clear level above the others. A nudge behind them, I'd put Gord. I'd also include Paul simon, Joni Mitchell, Billy Joel and Elton John in his tier.

So I don't think Gord is the "best ever." HOWEVER, he is the only one currently writing in his genre, the songs of the sea, of the land and of the wanderer. The songs of break-up, of sorrow and of surprising joy and beauty. Those of us who LOVE that genre, find Gord to be incomparable.

Count me as one of those.


------------------
"And the laughter came too easy for life to pass me by."

[Wingdrops]

I didn't see Derek's reply as I was writing mine (above).

I agree with everything he said.

[2Much2Lose]

I didn't see Derek's reply as I was writing mine (above).

I agree with everything he said.

[Bill Allen]

quote:Originally posted by 2Much2Lose:
I didn't see Derek's reply as I was writing mine (above).

I agree with everything he said.



But...but...I agree with everything YOU said! Dang...this is getting awfully confusing! http://www.corfid.com/ubb/smile.gif
Derek

[telekidd]

quote:Originally posted by 2Much2Lose:
I didn't see Derek's reply as I was writing mine (above).

I agree with everything he said.



But...but...I agree with everything YOU said! Dang...this is getting awfully confusing! http://www.corfid.com/ubb/smile.gif
Derek

[Shane]

Several excellent points have been made. When I say "Gord is the best" I am speaking for myself with a bit of bias. A better statement would be: "No one is better than Gordon." I could say the same thing about several songwriters. To pick out the "best" is a fruitless pursuit. Each artist is an individual with no one else like them. This makes music interesting. I think we are very blessed to have so many fine singer/songwriters to listen to.

[Scott Mac]

Several excellent points have been made. When I say "Gord is the best" I am speaking for myself with a bit of bias. A better statement would be: "No one is better than Gordon." I could say the same thing about several songwriters. To pick out the "best" is a fruitless pursuit. Each artist is an individual with no one else like them. This makes music interesting. I think we are very blessed to have so many fine singer/songwriters to listen to.

[Wingdrops]

I don't think it's fair or correct to use an individual's personal preferences as the measure of an artist's greatness. So the issue of whether or not the Watchman likes the Beatles, while relevant to his personal choices, is not relevant to a measure of the greatness of an artist. Similarly, our love for Gord and his music speaks to a different issue than the issue of greatness.

I think there are several characteristics of greatness. Among them are universality, influence, timelessness and craft (skill). I believe that Gord's music is timeless, that it still will be appreciated hundreds of years from now. I know that he is a craftsman. He falls short on the scale of influence and the scale of universiality (with minor exceptions). Few of his songs address universal themes (with exceptions such as Beautiful).

I am sure that the Beatles' music is timeless and extremely influential, and not just to rock'n rollers. Their songs are the new standards of our age, interpreted and covered by jazz and classical artists, as well as rock. Moreover, the Beatles' music, films and off-screen behavior had an impact on society in the '60s. Their craftsmanship is superb and extremely complex and the songs, especially the later ones, address universal themes, such as the transcendence of love and the disconnectedness of modern life.

Although popularity cannot be the sole measure of greatness (consider the lack of popularity of the Iliad and Odyssey today), it is another factor to be considered. Most adults (over 21) would be hard-pressed to name more than one or two Gord songs, if that many. I'd wager that most adults could name at least 10 or more Beatles songs or Elvis songs. Until recently, "Yesterday" was the most played song on the radio in history (Unchained Melody has passed it). Similarly, if one measures the number of songs "covered" by other artists, the Beatles' music has a vast lead over anyone else.

Just as a matter of curiosity, I'd love to know how many Beatles' songs that Watchman can name, even though (1) he is not a fan, (2) he grew up after Lennon was already dead and (3) grew up more than a decade after the Beatles broke up.

(Since (1), (2) and (3) don't apply to me, I can tell you that I can name well over 100 songs by the Beatles, either as individuals or as a group. But I could also do that with Gord. LOL)



------------------
"And the laughter came too easy for life to pass me by."

[2Much2Lose]

I don't think it's fair or correct to use an individual's personal preferences as the measure of an artist's greatness. So the issue of whether or not the Watchman likes the Beatles, while relevant to his personal choices, is not relevant to a measure of the greatness of an artist. Similarly, our love for Gord and his music speaks to a different issue than the issue of greatness.

I think there are several characteristics of greatness. Among them are universality, influence, timelessness and craft (skill). I believe that Gord's music is timeless, that it still will be appreciated hundreds of years from now. I know that he is a craftsman. He falls short on the scale of influence and the scale of universiality (with minor exceptions). Few of his songs address universal themes (with exceptions such as Beautiful).

I am sure that the Beatles' music is timeless and extremely influential, and not just to rock'n rollers. Their songs are the new standards of our age, interpreted and covered by jazz and classical artists, as well as rock. Moreover, the Beatles' music, films and off-screen behavior had an impact on society in the '60s. Their craftsmanship is superb and extremely complex and the songs, especially the later ones, address universal themes, such as the transcendence of love and the disconnectedness of modern life.

Although popularity cannot be the sole measure of greatness (consider the lack of popularity of the Iliad and Odyssey today), it is another factor to be considered. Most adults (over 21) would be hard-pressed to name more than one or two Gord songs, if that many. I'd wager that most adults could name at least 10 or more Beatles songs or Elvis songs. Until recently, "Yesterday" was the most played song on the radio in history (Unchained Melody has passed it). Similarly, if one measures the number of songs "covered" by other artists, the Beatles' music has a vast lead over anyone else.

Just as a matter of curiosity, I'd love to know how many Beatles' songs that Watchman can name, even though (1) he is not a fan, (2) he grew up after Lennon was already dead and (3) grew up more than a decade after the Beatles broke up.

(Since (1), (2) and (3) don't apply to me, I can tell you that I can name well over 100 songs by the Beatles, either as individuals or as a group. But I could also do that with Gord. LOL)



------------------
"And the laughter came too easy for life to pass me by."

[SilverHeels]

I'm a Brit and I do not rever the Beatles.
I can name a few of their songs but not many.
Most of them I find boring or nonsensical.
I have never understood their 'greatness'.
Personal preferences must have something to do with what is considered to be 'Great'.
If nobody had listened to the Beatles, bought
their records, etc. Would they not have
disappeared into the mists of the 1960s
never to be heard of again? Would they then
have been considered such great songwriters?
Personal preferences of their hysterical fans
at that time made them icons and so they
entered the realms of 'Greatness'. But this
is just my personal opinion. What the heck
do I know other than for me Gordon Lightfoot
is the best! http://www.corfid.com/ubb/smile.gif

[Restless]

Well I have to say Gordon is my favorite singer songwriter. His music is the background for my life in a lot of ways. I also like his voice. It has a haunting yet romantic sound. My other favorites are John Haitt, John Prine, Jimmy Buffett, Steve Earle, Nanci Griffith, bob Dylan. Neil Young, Kate Wolf, and Stan Rogers. All unique in there own ways. I know have 8,478 cd'since
salute and shadows.

[BILLW]

This is a great thread BUT I just need to verify one point. paddletothesea: did you say 8,478 cds? As in: eight thousand four hundred and seventy eight? Really? That's very cool!

Bill

[james hill]

i'm a big fan of a lot of people, but i get a bit annoyed at the lack of appreciation of Gordon's work. with the ever increasing amount of c.d.'s that get poured into stores weekly, & as the age of music buyers gets younger, it's obvious that people's tastes are turning elsewhere. what really bothers me is there are too many folks my age that don't care if Gord ever releases another album. for example, why was Massey Hall filled every night during the "Shadows" tour, but the album died virtually stillborn?
the answer is people just want to hear the hits. (except of course, the true Lightheads).
i've strayed a bit from the orig. topic, but the bottom line is this: Lennon & McCartney could never have written "Seven Island Suite" while Gordon could never have written "Let it Be".
i'm just glad that "7 Island..." got a mention. truly a wonderful song!

[Brian 57]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by TheWatchman:

Personal opinions are exactly how you measure an artist. This is how you measure popularity as well as influence.


This is a big difference between art and science. Measurement in Science is quantitative, In art it's qualitative. The fact that Helium is an inert gas is not a matter of opinion, nor is it inert because that's the way it touched someone's heart. It's a result of analysis of the properties of Helium. Therefore,it is the safest gas to use in a blimp. Somebody stating why a particular artist is better than another can only be based on their opinion and feelings. (So, "Gordon Lightfoot is the best singer/songwriter ever because he is lighter than air and non-combustible" is probably an opinion).

[mtheeb]

Watchman,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I suspect that the only Beatles songs you've ever heard are those which receive radio airplay. Though many Beatles tracks do get airplay, obviously most don't, so what you hear on the radio cannot fairly represent the extent of their output. I bet you'd be ASTONISHED if you were to listen to the entire Help! album, the entire Rubber Soul album, the entire White album, the entire Abbey Road album, etc. Beatles discs are supersaturated with tremendous tunes. While it may be true that "I Want To Hold Your Hand" is, as you say, "simple music," this misses the point. As previously stated, what most impresses is the prolificness and rapid growth of the Beatles: 13 albums in only seven or eight years, FROM "I Want To Hold Your Hand" all the unbelievable way TO "A Day In The Life" (and beyond). I love the music of Gordon Lightfoot, but consider this: Lightfoot can write well in perhaps one or two "styles" or "genres" of music, but the Beatles were talented with pretty much EVERY possible style (rock, pop, blues, folk, metal, broadway and whatever I've left out). No exaggeration.

[Restless]

Watchman,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I suspect that the only Beatles songs you've ever heard are those which receive radio airplay. Though many Beatles tracks do get airplay, obviously most don't, so what you hear on the radio cannot fairly represent the extent of their output. I bet you'd be ASTONISHED if you were to listen to the entire Help! album, the entire Rubber Soul album, the entire White album, the entire Abbey Road album, etc. Beatles discs are supersaturated with tremendous tunes. While it may be true that "I Want To Hold Your Hand" is, as you say, "simple music," this misses the point. As previously stated, what most impresses is the prolificness and rapid growth of the Beatles: 13 albums in only seven or eight years, FROM "I Want To Hold Your Hand" all the unbelievable way TO "A Day In The Life" (and beyond). I love the music of Gordon Lightfoot, but consider this: Lightfoot can write well in perhaps one or two "styles" or "genres" of music, but the Beatles were talented with pretty much EVERY possible style (rock, pop, blues, folk, metal, broadway and whatever I've left out). No exaggeration.

[mtheeb]

For whatever it's worth, Watchman... Try the Beatles' Rubber Soul for their most catchy tunes, most consistent sound, most tight bandlike effort. Try the White album for the Beatles' on their way to breaking apart but admirably tackling every imaginable musical style. (Again, the wonder is not most product in least time; it is the accelerated musical growth, under the guidance of producer George Martin.) Much thanks for your opinions and replies.

[Restless]

For whatever it's worth, Watchman... Try the Beatles' Rubber Soul for their most catchy tunes, most consistent sound, most tight bandlike effort. Try the White album for the Beatles' on their way to breaking apart but admirably tackling every imaginable musical style. (Again, the wonder is not most product in least time; it is the accelerated musical growth, under the guidance of producer George Martin.) Much thanks for your opinions and replies.

[Restless]

quote:Originally posted by BILLW:
This is a great thread BUT I just need to verify one point. paddletothesea: did you say 8,478 cds? As in: eight thousand four hundred and seventy eight? Really? That's very cool!

Bill

Eight thousand four hundred and eighty two now!

[Restless]

Im personally dont think we should be comparing the Beatles with Lightfoot. They are both masters, just like the other thousands of artist out there. What we compare is how there music relates to our own personal emotions, feelings, and life. It could even be from a past life experience. There is no such thing as "better" or good or bad....things are what they are.

[Le Grande Fromage]

WOW. Some opinions here! I have just read the first 'thread' and it appears to say QUOTE: Is there anyone else who agrees that GORD is probably one of the best and most original singers around. UNQUOTE. The simple answer is "I agree" or "I disagree" However we seem to have a discussion about Gordon's and certain others, songwriting abilities. I am not arrogant enough to suggest that any particular songwriter is 'The Best' But Gordon is certainly right up there. As for J&P, it was not so long ago that they had a massive selling album of 26 of their songs which made No1 in the UK & USA ( one GH song making 27 in all )this some 30 plus years down the line. Not too many artistes will be able to claim that. Further to that I read somewhere that PMs US tour totally sold out 75 minutes after tickets went on sale, must mean something. However Gordon rules OK.

[Le Grande Fromage]

WOW. Some opinions here! I have just read the first 'thread' and it appears to say QUOTE: Is there anyone else who agrees that GORD is probably one of the best and most original singers around. UNQUOTE. The simple answer is "I agree" or "I disagree" However we seem to have a discussion about Gordon's and certain others, songwriting abilities. I am not arrogant enough to suggest that any particular songwriter is 'The Best' But Gordon is certainly right up there. As for J&P, it was not so long ago that they had a massive selling album of 26 of their songs which made No1 in the UK & USA ( one GH song making 27 in all )this some 30 plus years down the line. Not too many artistes will be able to claim that. Further to that I read somewhere that PMs US tour totally sold out 75 minutes after tickets went on sale, must mean something. However Gordon rules OK.

[mtheeb]

Clearly there are such things as good, bad, and better...among climates, musicians, cultures, etc. Surely we can all confidently say that the music of Gordon Lightfoot is better than that of Britney Spears, for example. In fact, I'll risk banishment from this site and declare outright that Britney Spears--her music, personality, and influence--is BAD BAD BAD.

[Restless]

Clearly there are such things as good, bad, and better...among climates, musicians, cultures, etc. Surely we can all confidently say that the music of Gordon Lightfoot is better than that of Britney Spears, for example. In fact, I'll risk banishment from this site and declare outright that Britney Spears--her music, personality, and influence--is BAD BAD BAD.

[Janice]

quote:Originally posted by TheWatchman:
If we just typed "I agree" or "I disagree", wouldn't that be incredibly boring? Personal opinions are make this world interesting and allows people to explore and try new things. Case in point: I am going to buy my first Beatles CD tonight. If it had not been for all these posts and all the personal opinions here, I never would have even thought about the Beatles.

There is nothing wrong with comaring one band to another for the sake of discussion. We compare things everyday whether we are conscience of it or not. So why not compare music for the sake of a good discussion especially when music is a very important part of our lives? It is personal choice to like one over another, or to think that one is stronger in certain areas and so forth. Like I said earlier, there is no one right or wrong answer. It's just cool to read others remarks about this stuff. I don't think that anyone ever wrote that one is definitely better than the other. It's just how we see certain musicians fitting within the whole scene. Personally, I have really enjoyed reading others posts here and it has allowed to want to dig in a little further to the Beatles music.

It's kind of cool that we can have discussions like this on the web. Now I am looking forward to exploring the music of a legandary band that I never would have even considered prior to the start of this thread. You can thank this thread for that! http://www.corfid.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[This message has been edited by TheWatchman (edited August 29, 2002).]

In my mind, this is definitely what it's all about - sharing the music (Lightfoot's as well as others). BTW, Rubber Soul is my favorite Beatles album and since I was very young during the 60's and early 70's I gained my appreciation of their talents after the fact, so you may too. You'll have to let us know what you think.

[mytoyota@earthlink.net]

I agree with most of The Watchman's first post. Though, I've been listening to Gord for almost my whole life, which is a lot longer than 12 years,

The Beatles do absolutely nothing for me. Never have. Lyrics are very important to me and the Beatles always sounded like nonsense. I suppose at that age, the Rolling Stones were heads and tails beyond them in my personal tastes.

That was then, I enjoyed them. Did they stand the test of time? No not really. Gord has, and he always will, for me. He's magical. He takes me to that dreamland place. I never get tired of him, it's always fresh and insightful, to me.

Everyone always rants about how great Bob Dylan is. For years, every time he came on the radio, I would turn it off! Same with the Beatles and The Grateful Dead. They irritate me to no end. Even Bob Dylan's supposed great songs, sung by other people, don't touch me.
Does anyone remember "A Clockwork Orange"? The man that was the main characters' victim, early on in the movie, locked the main character in a room, and turned up the music that the main character was trained to detest, and the main character ended up jumping out the window. (How's that for a long sentence?) I think if I were forced to endure any of these . . .

There's just something about Gord, that touches me, lyrically and musically.
Kim


------------------
paperback dreams . . .

[Brian 57]

Watchman,

Sorry for the confusion. Too big words and too little sleep make me forget that moving my head up and down is yes and side to side is no and not the other way around. So, all lame metaphors aside, I agree with you. Gord's great because he is.

Brian

[Wingdrops]

The Watchman's response to my post blurs the distinction between "personal preferences" and "personal opinion." One can "prefer" to listen to a certain piece but not have the "opinion" that it is a high quality of artistry.

Of course opinions matter in evaluating an artist's work. And personal preferences can certainly shape opinions. Even Shakespeare was in relatively low regard in the 1700's due to the preferences of the time, until he was revived through fresh interpretations in the late 1800's. So perhaps we have very little disagreement about quality and more of a difference in tastes.

Just 2 more comments, unrelated. Brittany's song "Oops, I Did It Again" is great pop music. However, she herself had very little to do with the strength of that song, since her interpretation is formulaic, and since her primary appeal to her audience is blonde hair, breast implants and suggestive dancing.
That said, her music generally sucks. LOL

I take no offense, and am not surprised, that some folks do not like the Beatles. However, I am surprised that anyone would have trouble naming 10 of their songs (as a group or as individual artists).

Is there really anyone who can read the list below (40 songs) and not pick out 10 that he/she knows (or could hum)?

I Wanna Hold Your Hand
Can't Buy Me Love
She Loves You (Yeh Yeh Yeh)
Twist and Shout
Yesterday

A Hard Day's Night
Eight Days a Week
Norwegian Wood
Michelle
Nowhere Man

If I Fell
Ticket to Ride
Help!
Hello, Goodbye
Penny Lane

Eight Days a Week
Eleanor Rigby
Lady Madonna
Strawberry Fields Forever
Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds

All You Need Is Love
Yellow Submarine
When I'm Sixty-Four
Fool on the Hill
Revolution

Hey Jude
Here Comes the Sun
Something
Come Together
Get Back

Let it Be
The Long and Winding Road
Give Peace a Chance
Live and Let Die
Happy Christmas (War is Over)

My Sweet Lord
Imagine
Band on the Run
(Just Like) Starting Over
Woman

Moreover, the above list does not include ANY songs from St. Pepper's or the White Album, two of their best.

I'd be interested in knowing The Watchman's count of songs recognized, and the count of any other non-Beatles fan.

I'm perfectly willing to be educated on this one! LOL




------------------
"And the laughter came too easy for life to pass me by."

[2Much2Lose]

The Watchman's response to my post blurs the distinction between "personal preferences" and "personal opinion." One can "prefer" to listen to a certain piece but not have the "opinion" that it is a high quality of artistry.

Of course opinions matter in evaluating an artist's work. And personal preferences can certainly shape opinions. Even Shakespeare was in relatively low regard in the 1700's due to the preferences of the time, until he was revived through fresh interpretations in the late 1800's. So perhaps we have very little disagreement about quality and more of a difference in tastes.

Just 2 more comments, unrelated. Brittany's song "Oops, I Did It Again" is great pop music. However, she herself had very little to do with the strength of that song, since her interpretation is formulaic, and since her primary appeal to her audience is blonde hair, breast implants and suggestive dancing.
That said, her music generally sucks. LOL

I take no offense, and am not surprised, that some folks do not like the Beatles. However, I am surprised that anyone would have trouble naming 10 of their songs (as a group or as individual artists).

Is there really anyone who can read the list below (40 songs) and not pick out 10 that he/she knows (or could hum)?

I Wanna Hold Your Hand
Can't Buy Me Love
She Loves You (Yeh Yeh Yeh)
Twist and Shout
Yesterday

A Hard Day's Night
Eight Days a Week
Norwegian Wood
Michelle
Nowhere Man

If I Fell
Ticket to Ride
Help!
Hello, Goodbye
Penny Lane

Eight Days a Week
Eleanor Rigby
Lady Madonna
Strawberry Fields Forever
Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds

All You Need Is Love
Yellow Submarine
When I'm Sixty-Four
Fool on the Hill
Revolution

Hey Jude
Here Comes the Sun
Something
Come Together
Get Back

Let it Be
The Long and Winding Road
Give Peace a Chance
Live and Let Die
Happy Christmas (War is Over)

My Sweet Lord
Imagine
Band on the Run
(Just Like) Starting Over
Woman

Moreover, the above list does not include ANY songs from St. Pepper's or the White Album, two of their best.

I'd be interested in knowing The Watchman's count of songs recognized, and the count of any other non-Beatles fan.

I'm perfectly willing to be educated on this one! LOL




------------------
"And the laughter came too easy for life to pass me by."

[fezo]

2M2L,

'Imagine', which happens to be one of my all time favourite songs, was written by John
Lennon who IMO was the real talent in the
Beatles. Yes, I admit I recognise several
of the titles in your post but I couldn't sing or even hum most of them. Some I've
never even heard of. Sorry.

[Silver Heels]

2M2L,

'Imagine', which happens to be one of my all time favourite songs, was written by John
Lennon who IMO was the real talent in the
Beatles. Yes, I admit I recognise several
of the titles in your post but I couldn't sing or even hum most of them. Some I've
never even heard of. Sorry.

[Sheila Ann]

2M2L,
Boy do I feel stupid...I can actually hum some and get thru most of the words of all but four of the songs on your list!!! I have been wracking my brain to come up with more than 3!!! I even had a couple of them for piano lesson pieces to learn and didn't remember them til I saw the list. I never owned any of their albums, tho, so maybe that's my problem. Or maybe I'm just getting old http://www.corfid.com/ubb/smile.gif
SheilaB

[fezo]

SheilaB,

its not you at all. Its the songs http://www.corfid.com/ubb/wink.gif

Now I bet you have no trouble with a
Gord composition.

[Silver Heels]

SheilaB,

its not you at all. Its the songs http://www.corfid.com/ubb/wink.gif

Now I bet you have no trouble with a
Gord composition.

[Brian 57]

I'm gonna duck out of this thread and get into some Tchaikovsky. He's been dead for 110 years and so is a lot less controversial.

[Janice]

quote:Originally posted by Brian 57:
I'm gonna duck out of this thread and get into some Tchaikovsky. He's been dead for 110 years and so is a lot less controversial.

Chicken http://www.corfid.com/ubb/smile.gif


Hey 2Much2Lose, you have Eight Days A Week twice, but I still knew most of the songs listed. You could replace one of your Eight Days with In My Life or This Boy - two of my particular favorites. I could never say I was a huge Beatles fan, but I like a lot (most that I'm familiar with)of their songs and certainly respect the talent

[Sheila Ann]

You sure are right, Silver Heels!

...and is he the best singer/songwriter ever? I analyzed my own personal collection and voted 'yes'...for me! I have most of his albums and, except for Neil Diamond, no other individual artist or group even comes close. By category...only my Christmas albums take up more space!
SheilaB

[dscam31]

I THINK TAHT EVERYBODY HERE IS ONE THING. JUST LOVERS OF GOOD MUSIC PERIOD. ALL ABOVE MENTIONED ARTIST ARE GREAT IN THERE OWN WAY. I JUST GOT THE LAST 2 GORD ALBUMS FIRST TIME I EVER HEARD THEM WOW WHAT GOOD STUFF ESPECIALLY SHADOWS. I ENJOY READING EVERYONES COMMENTS.

[RBENGALS]

I THINK TAHT EVERYBODY HERE IS ONE THING. JUST LOVERS OF GOOD MUSIC PERIOD. ALL ABOVE MENTIONED ARTIST ARE GREAT IN THERE OWN WAY. I JUST GOT THE LAST 2 GORD ALBUMS FIRST TIME I EVER HEARD THEM WOW WHAT GOOD STUFF ESPECIALLY SHADOWS. I ENJOY READING EVERYONES COMMENTS.

[mytoyota@earthlink.net]

Watchman,
I couldn't have said it better myself. Wish you were going to Toronto, I'd love to shake your hand.
Kudos for giving them a try, that would certainly have sheer torture for me.
Peace all!
Kim

[mytoyota@earthlink.net]

Watchman,
I couldn't have said it better myself. Wish you were going to Toronto, I'd love to shake your hand.
Kudos for giving them a try, that would certainly have sheer torture for me.
Peace all!
Kim

[Bill Allen]

quote:Originally posted by TheWatchman:
Personally, I don't see how anybody can even attempt to say that the Beatles are a better band in any way shape or form. They just don't have what it takes to sustain. They got famous because they came to the US with a new style that was happening in England at the time. They were simple liasons, nothing more. If another band had come over first and been a hit, The Beatles would have not got off the ground. They lack any substance and true writing talent to make it in the US without the "new phenomina" stuff that made them famous.

[This message has been edited by TheWatchman (edited August 31, 2002).]

Watchman, I enjoy your posts immensely--they're always well-written, and always thought-provoking. However, in this instance, I respectfully suggest you're missing the point...at least of what I've written previously, anyway. When I wrote my response to the original post, I was trying to say that there are at least two ways (actually many more) of looking at a question. You're making subjective opinions, and that's fine. On a subjective basis, Gordon Lightfoot will always be my favorite songwriter too. What I was getting at is that it's an interesting exercise to try and take an objective approach. If you don't like the Beatles, that's fine. I don't care for Dylan, to take another example, myself. But viewed in their historical context, I can recognize and accept how groundbreakingly important they were.

To take an example from another artistic medium, it seems to be generally accepted that the greatest American film ever made was Citizen Kane. It shows up repeatedly in different critical assessements (like the American Film Institute's, for example) as #1. When I watch it, if I look at it objectively in its historical context, then I can agree: it probably is the greatest film ever made...a quantum leap in filmmaking techniques. But if I just look at as a film, on a subjective basis...well, yeah--I like it, but it will never be my favorite film of all time.

As another example, we look at the paintings from the Impressionist period today and generally think they're pretty, gentle, fairly harmless paintings of Parisian street scenes, the French countryside, lilyponds, etc. But at the time they were working, the Impressionists were considered absolute renegades who were trashing what was then accepted as art.

So, as I say, subjectively, I agree with you 100%: you tell me I'm only allowed one CD on my desert island, and I'll tell you it's going to be Lightfoot (for god's sake, don't ask me to name which one--I got enough troubles!). http://www.corfid.com/ubb/smile.gifBut when you talk about great popular songwriters on an objective basis, then you have to start thinking about people like Dylan, Lennon/McCartney, Gershwin, Cole Porter, Joni Mitchell, Paul Simon, and many, many others. Of the six names I listed (pretty much at random), I like three of them and am so-so on the other three. But there's no denying their importance, nor that of many others.

Personally, I try to avoid comparing people--if I start comparing Lightfoot to, for example, James Taylor, well, I'm sure there are plenty of James Taylor fans willing to convince me that I'm wrong and they're right! But when it comes to subjectivity, there IS no right and wrong...just what works for each of us.

The latter section of your quote indicates to me you might want to do a little research into pop music of the late 50s/early 60s to better understand the Beatles in their historical context. There are number of good books out there on the subject.

Anyway, I just wanted to say that I was in no way suggesting the Beatles, Dylan or anybody else is "better" than Lightfoot, and that you should be converted into thinking so. I have had people beat me over the head with Dylan for years: the assumption seems to be that if I like Lightfoot, I must like Dylan. And yet, he just doesn't DO anything for me. I mean, I like his Oh Mercy album, for example, but the cover versions I've heard of the songs on that album ("Ring Them Bells" by GL, and Baez for example, or Joan Osborne's "Man in the Long Black Coat") appeal to me more than Dylan's original recordings!). And yet, I have to admit his influence on nearly all the songwriters that have followed him is nearly incalculable: even Lightfoot acknowledges him as a formative influence.

On a slightly related note, I received the CDs of Shadows and Salute, and had Salute playing in the car so loud, I think the sun roof opened by itself. I wonder if this voids the warranty... http://www.corfid.com/ubb/smile.gif
Derek




[This message has been edited by telekidd (edited September 01, 2002).]

[telekidd]

quote:Originally posted by TheWatchman:
Personally, I don't see how anybody can even attempt to say that the Beatles are a better band in any way shape or form. They just don't have what it takes to sustain. They got famous because they came to the US with a new style that was happening in England at the time. They were simple liasons, nothing more. If another band had come over first and been a hit, The Beatles would have not got off the ground. They lack any substance and true writing talent to make it in the US without the "new phenomina" stuff that made them famous.

[This message has been edited by TheWatchman (edited August 31, 2002).]

Watchman, I enjoy your posts immensely--they're always well-written, and always thought-provoking. However, in this instance, I respectfully suggest you're missing the point...at least of what I've written previously, anyway. When I wrote my response to the original post, I was trying to say that there are at least two ways (actually many more) of looking at a question. You're making subjective opinions, and that's fine. On a subjective basis, Gordon Lightfoot will always be my favorite songwriter too. What I was getting at is that it's an interesting exercise to try and take an objective approach. If you don't like the Beatles, that's fine. I don't care for Dylan, to take another example, myself. But viewed in their historical context, I can recognize and accept how groundbreakingly important they were.

To take an example from another artistic medium, it seems to be generally accepted that the greatest American film ever made was Citizen Kane. It shows up repeatedly in different critical assessements (like the American Film Institute's, for example) as #1. When I watch it, if I look at it objectively in its historical context, then I can agree: it probably is the greatest film ever made...a quantum leap in filmmaking techniques. But if I just look at as a film, on a subjective basis...well, yeah--I like it, but it will never be my favorite film of all time.

As another example, we look at the paintings from the Impressionist period today and generally think they're pretty, gentle, fairly harmless paintings of Parisian street scenes, the French countryside, lilyponds, etc. But at the time they were working, the Impressionists were considered absolute renegades who were trashing what was then accepted as art.

So, as I say, subjectively, I agree with you 100%: you tell me I'm only allowed one CD on my desert island, and I'll tell you it's going to be Lightfoot (for god's sake, don't ask me to name which one--I got enough troubles!). http://www.corfid.com/ubb/smile.gifBut when you talk about great popular songwriters on an objective basis, then you have to start thinking about people like Dylan, Lennon/McCartney, Gershwin, Cole Porter, Joni Mitchell, Paul Simon, and many, many others. Of the six names I listed (pretty much at random), I like three of them and am so-so on the other three. But there's no denying their importance, nor that of many others.

Personally, I try to avoid comparing people--if I start comparing Lightfoot to, for example, James Taylor, well, I'm sure there are plenty of James Taylor fans willing to convince me that I'm wrong and they're right! But when it comes to subjectivity, there IS no right and wrong...just what works for each of us.

The latter section of your quote indicates to me you might want to do a little research into pop music of the late 50s/early 60s to better understand the Beatles in their historical context. There are number of good books out there on the subject.

Anyway, I just wanted to say that I was in no way suggesting the Beatles, Dylan or anybody else is "better" than Lightfoot, and that you should be converted into thinking so. I have had people beat me over the head with Dylan for years: the assumption seems to be that if I like Lightfoot, I must like Dylan. And yet, he just doesn't DO anything for me. I mean, I like his Oh Mercy album, for example, but the cover versions I've heard of the songs on that album ("Ring Them Bells" by GL, and Baez for example, or Joan Osborne's "Man in the Long Black Coat") appeal to me more than Dylan's original recordings!). And yet, I have to admit his influence on nearly all the songwriters that have followed him is nearly incalculable: even Lightfoot acknowledges him as a formative influence.

On a slightly related note, I received the CDs of Shadows and Salute, and had Salute playing in the car so loud, I think the sun roof opened by itself. I wonder if this voids the warranty... http://www.corfid.com/ubb/smile.gif
Derek




[This message has been edited by telekidd (edited September 01, 2002).]

[mtheeb]

Watchman,
Your opinion that the Beatles "lack any substance and true writing talent" is painful. I'm tempted to list the many tunes which clearly make Lightfoot the greatest writer ever (songs about go-go girls, trout, moss, Sea World, etc), but the following lyrics should convince any doubter that Lightfoot has no equal: "I'd do anything for you, You'd do anything for me, We'd do anything for love." Simply stunning. (I know the response to this post: the Beatles wrote about piggies, raccoons, walruses and octopuses! For whatever it's worth, I've sold off all of my Beatles discs, but to this day retain all of my Lightfoot, whose music I adore, for the most part. The Beatles just got too wacko with the drugs, egos and wayward spiritual quests...)

[Restless]

Watchman,
Your opinion that the Beatles "lack any substance and true writing talent" is painful. I'm tempted to list the many tunes which clearly make Lightfoot the greatest writer ever (songs about go-go girls, trout, moss, Sea World, etc), but the following lyrics should convince any doubter that Lightfoot has no equal: "I'd do anything for you, You'd do anything for me, We'd do anything for love." Simply stunning. (I know the response to this post: the Beatles wrote about piggies, raccoons, walruses and octopuses! For whatever it's worth, I've sold off all of my Beatles discs, but to this day retain all of my Lightfoot, whose music I adore, for the most part. The Beatles just got too wacko with the drugs, egos and wayward spiritual quests...)

[lavender]

I went to high school in the 80s, do not own a single beatles cd, but I can hum/sing along to all but two of the songs listed by 2M2L. The beatles get/got so much airplay, I think it would be hard not to. I love music in general, and I do think that GL is the best, but I enjoy other music as well. Of course this is just my opinion. However, I'm sure there are the appropriate websites for those who want to sing the praises of the beatles/lennon.

[lavender]

I went to high school in the 80s, do not own a single beatles cd, but I can hum/sing along to all but two of the songs listed by 2M2L. The beatles get/got so much airplay, I think it would be hard not to. I love music in general, and I do think that GL is the best, but I enjoy other music as well. Of course this is just my opinion. However, I'm sure there are the appropriate websites for those who want to sing the praises of the beatles/lennon.

[lavender]

I went to high school in the 80s, do not own a single beatles cd, but I can hum/sing along to all but two of the songs listed by 2M2L. The beatles get/got so much airplay, I think it would be hard not to. I love music in general, and I do think that GL is the best, but I enjoy other music as well. Of course this is just my opinion. However, I'm sure there are the appropriate websites for those who want to sing the praises of the beatles/lennon.

[lavender]

I went to high school in the 80s, do not own a single beatles cd, but I can hum/sing along to all but two of the songs listed by 2M2L. The beatles get/got so much airplay, I think it would be hard not to. I love music in general, and I do think that GL is the best, but I enjoy other music as well. Of course this is just my opinion. However, I'm sure there are the appropriate websites for those who want to sing the praises of the beatles/lennon.

[Janice]

quote:Originally posted by lavender:
I went to high school in the 80s, do not own a single beatles cd, but I can hum/sing along to all but two of the songs listed by 2M2L. The beatles get/got so much airplay, I think it would be hard not to. I love music in general, and I do think that GL is the best, but I enjoy other music as well. Of course this is just my opinion. However, I'm sure there are the appropriate websites for those who want to sing the praises of the beatles/lennon.

Lavender, I'm sure there are other websites to discuss the Beatles and I respect, but don't agree with your opinion that this isn't one of them. We can all go on and on about how Lightfoot is the "greatest" singer/songwriter/etc. If we didn't feel that way we wouldn't keep coming back to huddle around this cyber-water cooler. But sometimes "Gord is great" evolves into other topics that enhance our opinion of Lightfoot - or sometimes explains it - and there are times when this includes, heaven forbid, our appreciation (or lack there of) of other artists. After all you can only read what you already know so many times before it loses something. It's more fun to read things that are thought provoking, that generate discussion and the sharing of differing opinions. The circle is small - it always comes back to the fact that we all appreciate the music and talents of Gordon Lightfoot (albeit to differing degrees)

The wonderful thing about this message board is that if you're not in tune with a particular thread, you can start another one. With the diverse knowledge and ideas of the folks that hang out here, there is always participation in just about every conceivable topic presented and there is usually more than one going on - something for everyone, so to speak.

[Scarlett]

I think the best all round writers are GL and Willie Nelson

[BryanD]

I think the best all round writers are GL and Willie Nelson